#95940
02/25/2003 5:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I heard on NPR this morning about an octopus that has been trained to open jars of shrimp for its lunch.
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#95941
02/25/2003 6:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
How about the salmon farms that can teach salmon to return to artificial pond where they
were spawned, by putting a distinctive chemical into the water? (Maybe the process can be
extended to teach the salmon to jump into tin cans, ready to be sold.)
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#95942
02/25/2003 6:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Juan,
Kiwis don't lay the largest eggs; ostriches do. Your link indicated that kiwis lay the largest eggs in proportion to their body size. But the ostrich lays the largest bird egg out there.
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#95943
02/25/2003 7:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
Yes, WW, you're absolutely correct. I thought of correcting Juan at the time, but was more concerned by the statement that the kiwi could be considered an Australian bird. In fact, the passage Juan quoted merely proves that the kiwi of yore had the wit, good taste, and plain common sense to leave Australia and not go back, thereby distinguishing itself as a truly bright bird.
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#95944
02/25/2003 7:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Careful, Juan. Sounds to me like she's bucking for your title as Nit-picker in Chief.
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#95945
02/25/2003 8:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Speaking of nit pickers. A Brown grad told me of bringing his date into foyer of frat house,
and their being amused by spectacle of intoxicated frater totally naked, with feet up on center
table with large goldfish bowl, with magnifying glass and tweezers, picking nits and crabs off
his pubic area, and feeding them to the goldfish.
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#95946
02/25/2003 10:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
WW - We finally have an answer to your *original question.
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#95947
02/25/2003 11:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Yeah, WW, Kiwi eggs are about 1/3 (one third!) of the female Kiwi's weight (averages here, of course) it would be about the same as a human, let's say average weight if 100 lbs, giving birth to a 30 to 35 lb baby!
I once, in very short passing, weighed 100,(on my way to a larger size) but my children, when born, were "big"-- my son was 9 lbs, my daughter, 9lbs, 15 ounces.(both were 24 inches long--so they were big, not just well padded!) Not even 10% of my weight.
i feel very sorry for the poor momma kiwi who has to lay an egg that big!
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#95948
02/26/2003 5:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
In reply to:
To hear the sound of a kiwi, click here:
http://www.learnz.org.nz/2k/nestegg/index.htm
Do they travel in time and relative dimensions in space?
Bingley
Bingley
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#95949
02/26/2003 8:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
In reply to:
I heard on NPR this morning about an octopus that has been trained to open jars of shrimp for its lunch.
Why? Why had the octopus been so trained? Just to see whether it could?
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#95950
02/26/2003 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
Nope. Now they don't have to take the octopus to a kennel when they go on vacation 
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#95951
02/26/2003 1:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
connie,  There are a couple news stories out there -- here's BBC's take: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2796607.stmMaybe our Jazzoctopus can shed further light.
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#95952
02/26/2003 1:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
Do they travel in time and relative dimensions in space?
Jelly Baby®?
formerly known as etaoin...
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#95953
02/26/2003 3:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Terrific little story there, Asp.
"We just did it in the tank a few times and eventually she
cottoned on," he said.
From where does this 'cotton' come?
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#95954
02/26/2003 3:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear WW: I suspect the metaphor "to cotton on" originated in Virginia.
E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
Now have you caught on?
Cotton.
To cotton to a person. To cling to one or take a fancy to a person. To stick to a person as cotton
sticks to our clothes.
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#95955
02/26/2003 4:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
I like your 'caught on' = 'cotton' better than the cotton clinging explanation, wwh. I've been in a cotton field and I'd say cotton's pretty hard to remove rather than the opposite.
But this "caught on" for "cotton" is cute! But I'll take the explanation you provided as fact. Oh, well--a cool fancy down the brain....
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#95956
02/26/2003 4:17 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Going on diet I'd say that the Koala is pretty brainless. Eucalyptus doesn't exactly stimulate the nervous system and the slow-moving, dopiness can only be attributed to this diet.
Yes, they can get vicious but that doesn't necessarily imply any higher plane intelligence.
Speaking of octopods my photography lecture last night was about Natural History and there was one interesting fact which came up. All living creatures on earth are carbon-based except for octopods which are copper based. This explains their ability to change colour so quickly. What I'd like to know is how the hell they managed to evolve!
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#95957
02/26/2003 4:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Here's another explanation for cotton on: http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/14/messages/195.htmlAnd, Rubrick, I'd like to know what the hell you heard that caused you to make this observation! There's no way copper is going to fill in for carbon in meaningful way in biochemical structures. Carbon is IV A and copper is VIII.
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#95958
02/26/2003 4:38 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
'd like to know what the hell you heard that caused you to make this observation! There's no way copper is going to fill in for carbon in meaningful way in biochemical structures. Carbon is IV A and copper is VIII.
Don't shoot the messenger! I doubted it but I thought maybe someone else here could shed some light. I take it that it's not possible but I'd like to hear arguments to the contrary. Are Cephalopods carbon-based or copper-based?
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#95959
02/26/2003 5:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Silence in the court! I too was dumbfounded by the "copper based" allegation. I found a site that sets it straight. It's just their blood that is copper based. I used to know that, but had forgottten it. http://www.vfs.com/~jhumphre/portfolio/video.htm
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#95960
02/26/2003 5:09 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Makes sense. My blood is 35% pure alcohol and methylated spirits so I guess it's possible to have a different blood base to your over all body base.
Thanks for that, Dr. Bill.
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#95961
02/26/2003 5:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
It's just their blood that is copper based
So it's copper based as opposed to iron based. That I can buy. They're both VIII.
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#95962
02/26/2003 6:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
kiwi eggsAw, just stretchin' it a bit for the sake of a joke.  I've seen sjm and Cap lay a mighty big egg or two around here along the way... Careful, Juan. Sounds to me like she's bucking for your title as Nit-picker in Chief.Well, Faldo since you're the NitPick CEO, and I seem to have been elected (ahem) the COO, I guess we'll have to make WW the CFO. --Grasshopper dumbest mammalI seem to recall reading something somewhere about the lack of intelligence of a platypus along the way...does a dumb platypus ring a bell?...anyone?
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#95963
02/26/2003 6:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
haven't we seen ample evidence that the dumbest mammal is the coyote?! <beep beep!>
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#95964
02/26/2003 6:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
As a bit of medical trivia, blood formation requires a very tiny amount of copper. So tiny that
when research was being done on copper requirments over sixty years ago, the researchers
were baffled as to difficulty in producing copper deficiency in rabbits. After many months, someone
noticed rabbit liking brass wire holding tag on cage, and realized they were getting tiny but
adequate amounts of copper from the brass.
Tinier still is the amoount of cobalt necessary in Vitamin B 12
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#95965
02/26/2003 11:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
One wonders what the linguistc background is of the translator ... and one wonders even more, if Herr Müller did indeed speak English in that interview, where he learned it!?
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#95966
02/26/2003 11:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
No nits here. Those ostrich eggs are big mother suckers!
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#95967
02/27/2003 2:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
I seem to recall reading something somewhere about the lack of intelligence of a platypus along the way...does a dumb platypus ring a bell?...
Not intentionally.
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#95968
02/27/2003 2:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
does a dumb platypus ring a bell?...
well, when it does, a dumb human starts to drool...
formerly known as etaoin...
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#95969
02/28/2003 1:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
horseshoe crabs (and i don't think these are close relationship to octopods) also have lovely blue blood, with copper, not Iron as the oxygen carrying compound.
horseshoe crabs are very old (ie, they haven't changed much or evolved) and are found up and down the US east coast, as far south as the carolinas and as far north as southern maine.
they live in the sea, but lay their eggs above the high water mark (in June, with the equinox)
I was a NYC vollunteer helping Woods Hole researchers doing a study on the poputlation, and helped catch them one day some years ago. there blood is used to create a stain/dye that is used to test for gram negitive bacteria (nasty things gram negitive bacteria, TB is one)
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#95970
02/28/2003 4:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Yeahbut®, ot...if horseshoe crabs were mammals then we'd need a new word for crustaceons!
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#95971
02/28/2003 7:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Sorry Juan, i was unaware that octopods are members of the mammilia family, or for that matter, Kiwi or all the other animals that have come up
the answer, of course, is the last mammal that became extinque.
smart animals adapt to new challenges, dumb animals get done in. wooly mommouths were big, (and could feed the village for weeks) and had tough skin, and tusks, but they were not smart enough to outwit men armed with wooden sticks and stone spear tips. and so they are no more...
i think there are other marine animals that have copper based blood, not just horseshoe crabs and octopods.
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#95972
02/28/2003 7:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Notice that copper is essential to blood formation in humans"
Anemia
low Biotin (rare)
low Copper (early) - (hypochromic, microcytic)
low Essential Fatty Acids (see our Signal369)
low Folic Acid (megaloblastic)
low Iron (hypochromic, microcytic)
low Magnesium (hemolytic)
low Phosphorus (hemolytic)
low Riboflavin (normochromic, normocytic)
low Selenium (hemolytic)
high Vitamin A
low Vitamin B6 (microcytic)
low Vitamin B12 (megaloblastic)
low Vitamin C (scurvy)
low Vitamin E (hemolytic)
low Vitamin K (hypoprothrombinemia)
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#95973
02/28/2003 7:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
but they were not smart enough to outwit men armed with wooden sticks and stone spear tips.
and the humans were too stupid not to kill off an easy supply of food, so they had to find something else...
ah, but I chop mammoth...
formerly known as etaoin...
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#95974
02/28/2003 8:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Latest theories suggest there was some inadvertent disease trasmission involved.
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#95975
02/28/2003 8:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: this senile citizen found your comment bafflingly cryptic. What disease from whom to whom?
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#95977
02/28/2003 9:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Faldage: I do not believe that the small number of humans with very primitive weapons
could have covered enough ground to wipe out a widespread population of any animal.
Climate change does indeed make new diseases spread. My father never had to worry about
hearworm in his hunting dogs. West Nile may be a brand new virus, that climate change may
have facilitated spread.
Men wiped out the carrier pidgeon with shotguns.Sailors wiped out the the great auk.
That is believable. I think the archaeologists are extrapolating illogically from that.
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#95978
03/01/2003 3:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Just playing off the running "mammal" subject there, Helen.
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#95979
03/01/2003 1:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
the small number of humans with very primitive weapons
could have covered enough ground to wipe out a widespread population of any animal.
The overhunting theory was the original theory and more or less unquestioned for many years. The others are relatively recent and have been summarily rejected by those whose minds have been made up. Nobody, save you, seems to be ready to entertain the notion that it might have been a combination of ingredients.
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