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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread What's the meta with this? #95379 02/12/2003 10:37 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 wwh Carpal Tunnel wwh Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 Anticipating resentment of my taking too much space in Q&A. here is a second item from The Vocabula Review archive, which I hope may elicit comment: "3. doubt that Misused for doubt whether. " Although I never fail to sympathize with the general concern, I doubt that it's possible to engineer a happy return to a world in which secrets could be kept." USE doubt whether. [Harper's] To me, "whether" always implies a comparison, a choice, and "whether or not" can be clumsy. Please comment. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: What's the meta with this? #95380 02/13/2003 12:04 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 comment. The TVR gang is a bunch of stuffed shirts that have no faith in the ability of the language to function without their shepherding. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: What's the meta with this? #95381 02/13/2003 12:23 PM Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 6,296 Piedmont Region of Virginia, U... Wordwind Carpal Tunnel Wordwind Carpal Tunnel Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 6,296 Piedmont Region of Virginia, U... I'm a Belle Whether. I like the word and try to use it whenever I find it appropriate. Makes me feel like I'm being oh-so-precise in this World of Shades and Shadows. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: What's the meta with this? #95382 02/13/2003 12:50 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,692 UK dxb Pooh-Bah dxb Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,692 UK If I’ve got the hang of this, your proposition can be illustrated thus: Take 1: Statement: “I’m told that it is possible to engineer a happy return to a world in which secrets could be kept.” Response: “I doubt that (it's possible to engineer…).” In this case there is no choice to be made, so ‘doubt that’ may be used. Take 2: Statement: “Do you think it is possible to engineer a happy return to a world in which secrets could be kept?” Response: “I doubt whether it is (possible to engineer …).” In this case there is a choice implicit in the question, so ‘doubt whether’ should be used. The use of ‘whether’ in Take 2 feels clumsy. It would feel more natural to say ‘I doubt if it is’ or more simply ‘I doubt it’. I doubt if / whether / that I would normally find a need to use ‘doubt whether’ except when choices were distinctly stated as in, for example: “I have some doubt whether he will go east or west”. Even that is ambiguous as it leaves other alternatives available such as carrying on south. “I doubt whether he will go east or west” definitely introduces further options. But then I've probably got the wrong end of the stick anyway! I agree with Faldage; I don't believe it matters. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: What's the meta with this? #95383 02/13/2003 1:31 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 I have some doubt whether he will go east or west This seems incredibly imprecise if the choices are east or west. It seems to imply that the doubt is about whether he will go at all. Precision would require that one say, "I am unsure as to whether he will choose to go east or go west," or some such vebose gobbitch. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: What's the meta with this? #95384 02/13/2003 1:41 PM Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,692 UK dxb Pooh-Bah dxb Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,692 UK Absolutely. As I said: for example: “I have some doubt whether he will go east or west”. Even that is ambiguous as it leaves other alternatives available such as carrying on south. I think you have to be careful when using 'doubt whether'. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. (have been... ------  Words from medicine  Beheading words  Meta-words  Words from classical mythology  Animal Safari  Words with unusual etymologies  Eponyms or words derived from p...  Loanwords from German  English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode Show Likes Link Copied to Clipboard View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Website Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary View Profile Private Message Follow User Forum Posts Like Summary

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