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verbicides,
>"avuncular" is to uncle as "???" is to aunt?
I know, I know!! (oh, I get so excited when I can answer one of these first! *<8^)
materteral - Characteristic of an aunt
it's from the Latin word for maternal aunt, but has been extended.
can you think of other Latin words that have evolved into more generalized English?
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I know, I know!! (oh, I get so excited when I can answer one of these first! *<8^)ALL RIGHT, WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH TSUWM?? Whoever you are, I think I'm safe in saying that ego has been carried over. -------------------------------------------------------- This is an EDIT, the author(ess) having read Anna's post: ego was not intended as a personal reference to tsuwm-- I really was just trying to think of a word that I could feel sure fit the category! 
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#9273
10/29/2000 11:49 PM
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one that comes to mind is 'decimate'; originally to select by lot and kill every tenth man; now broadly to destroy a large part of. (YART! -- so what is the trick for shortening local links?)
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What about decibel? Ten belMarduks? Wow, the Board would really sizzle then!
Probate/approbate/opprobrium?
Centurion, certainly.
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I am told that one of me is more than enough  . Hmmmm.
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Pooh-Bah
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I guess that a large proportion of English is taken from Latin, but there are one or two Latin phrases that have become standard English usage, such as "status quo" - so much so that one does not even think of italicising the word to show its "foreign" provenance. "Via" is another one (although I must confess that I often do italicse that one - but that's just me being a show-off.) 
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>a large proportion of English is taken from Latin
but of(f) course; and my question was regarding words which have gone beyond a rather specific meaning in Latin. (just trying to steer back on course, momentarily :)
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>Centurion, certainly.
is this word used at all except in a historical context?
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I would have assumed that you would jump upon 'via' itself. I don't know much Latin, but Ithought that via (as in the famous Via Appia) meant 'roadway'. That we, in English, tend to use it metaphorically as a stopping point in any journey (ideas, roadtrips, musical discoveries etc), is surely an extended use?
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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Well, not knowing latin, i am a just guessing, but we (at least the North American we) use road to not only mean the macadam, but the process of getting there (The Road to Rio, Morocco, or any of the other Road movies of the 40's) and bouncing around the tips of my fingers, Charles Karault's (sp?) "On the Road.."
So might not Via have more than one meaning? could not via also mean the process of getting there... of being on the road? or is this just a good intentioned post on the road to hell?
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I am not sure whether this belongs here, or in the mangled maths thread, but "quantum" seems to be a Latin word that has both moved beyond its original Latin meaning, and gets seriously mangled in everyday use. Given that its accepted definition in physics is something like:
"1.The smallest amount of a physical quantity that can exist independently, especially a discrete quantity of electromagnetic radiation.
2. This amount of energy regarded as a unit. "
I am always amused when I hear of a quantum leap being made in some field of human endeavour
Even in a more general definition:
"1.A quantity or an amount.
2. A specified portion.
3. Something that can be counted or measured."
it appears to fit the description of a purely Latin word (one that would be recognised as such by a native Latin speaker) which has moved beyond its Latin meaning.
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Helen
I suspect you and I are saying much the same thing. But we will need to wait for our resident Latinists to see whether or not our interpetation of the extended meaning of 'via' is correct...
cheer
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Centurion, certainly.
>is this word used at all except in a historical context?I've heard it used for a job role, of all things - the idea being that it represented somebody who was responsible for 100 people. Naturally these centurions were never ever responsible for exactly 100 people (and, of course, an original centurion was one of 100 anyway). However, that's the only occasion I've heard the word used outside a Roman context. Other than on Battlestar Galactica
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I am always amused when I hear of a quantum leap being made in some field of human endeavourAh. Max, but but but - Isn't "quantum" as it is (probably mis-)used now all about the discrete aspect rather than the smallest possible aspect? i.e. a quantum leap represents when something or someone jumps from one discrete state to another, or makes a significant transition. "Never mind the quality, feel the width" ! You're almost definitely correct about the extended meaning, though.
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'decimate'Damn (sorry, Dagnabbit) I was going to pick that one! And I could have got away with YARTing a bit better, perhaps. What's striking is that this is a very clear abuse of the original meaning, which was very exact. In fact, so exact as to make the word pretty much useless for modern purposes. Oh go on then, tsuwm - give us a reference to the original! As follows: <url>wordsmith.org/Board=???&Number=???</url>replacing <with [, >with ] and ??? with appropriate Board name and Post Number. Yes, OK, I'll get detailed instructions together.... very soon now.. 
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In reply to:
Ah. Max, but but but -
Isn't "quantum" as it is (probably mis-)used now all about the discrete aspect rather than the smallest possible aspect?
i.e. a quantum leap represents when something or someone jumps from one discrete state to another, or makes a significant transition.
"Never mind the quality, feel the width" !
You are probably right - I suppose I was guilty of hawking my view without a planck to stand on. Despite my uncertainty, as a matter of principle, I still feel that I was relatively correct, as the implication in media usage seems to be not merely "discrete" but "large". From this observer's standpoint the word "quantum" appears to shifted, at least in common usage, from "discrete, and , most often, very small" to "discrete, and huge" - a shift of many, many, many orders of magnitude, that has really let the cat out of the box.
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jo, thanks for the link; unfortunately (a) it's the long form [drat] and (b) it's one of those threads that warps off into oblivion [double-darn-drat]...
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#9290
11/01/2000 12:16 AM
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Max, my hat is totally, completely and utterly doffed! Awesome!!! 
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The Latin word "via" does indeed mean "road" or "way". One form of Latin nouns and adjectives, called the ablative, can mean "with" or "by means of" the noun. As it happens the ablative of "via" is "via", and means "by way of" or "passing through" a place.
Bingley
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Uncle itself is an example. It derives ultimately from the Latin word "avunculus", which referred to one's mother's brother, not one's father's brother, "patruus".
Bingley
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#9293
11/01/2000 12:19 PM
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Bingley, you are utterly impressive, you know that?
I bow in deep admiration of the things you know.
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Ah well, at least we tried...
Does the use of august as the name of a month count?
cheer
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Not really since it was the Romans who first called the month after the emperor Augustus, and the previous month after his great uncle Julius (Caesar).
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At least 20% of English words are derived from Latin. Here are examples of English words that are pure Latin: exit, regular, circus, debit, credit, credo, et cetera.
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I thought "decimate" was someone who'd been married ten times.
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Welcome, hearsay. You don't say? I'm impressed. Geoff, welcome also--married ten times! I love it!
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married ten times…… and a decimal fraction’s an argument in the shopping mall
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of English words are derived from Latin...
animate, bolus, cordial, dedicate, egregious, factotum, genteel, index, jugular, luminous, minuscule, nimbus, occident, porcine, quarter, rapt, secluded, tortuous, ubiquitous, venal, just to name a few.
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Or maybe decimate defines ten evils (deci+malus) And, since shopping malls make me sick, I tend to think of them as ten times worse than regular stores.
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The letter C in the Latin alphabet is always hard. Thus, caesar was pronounced Kai-sar, from which the German monarch got his name--kaiser. Cicero was pronounced kick-er-row.
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While one doesn't hear the hard "C," the Russian "Czar" has the same derivation as the German "Kaiser," methinks.
Regarding the ablative case post: It's been thirty five years since I studied Latin, but I seem to recall that the Ablative was the analog of the English object of a preposition. Is that not so?
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I thought "decimate" was someone who'd been married ten times.
Well Geoff, they'd definitely be more than a tenth destroyed.
Bicynical Fish
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There is the highest per centage of Latin based words in the worlds of government, military, and church. There is the highest per centage of Anglo-Saxon words in things found around the house: knife, wife, spoon, hearth.
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In reply to:
There is the highest per centage of Latin based words in the worlds of government, military, and church. There is the highest per centage of Anglo-Saxon words in things found around the house: knife, wife, spoon, hearth.
Ah, but what about the snobbish class distinctions for concepts that have words from both roots? Mansion vs. house, liberty vs. freedom, fraternity vs. brotherhood, usw. Damn those élitist Normans!
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I note that one's own anatomy and its functions have both Latin and Anglo-Saxon names, the former being "proper," the latter "vulgar." Yet, it seems to me, we tend to use the AS words for bodily functions when said function's particularly satisfying, or when it's intended pejoritively, and the Latin correlate when speaking neutrally. The American writer Diane Ackerman makes this point quite well in her book, "A Natural History of Love."
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#9308
11/16/2000 10:12 AM
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both Latin and Anglo-Saxon names, the former being "proper" the latter "vulgar"
You're quite right, Geoff, also about Latin being somehow more dry and clinical.
I was wondering if any Latin swear-words, oaths or slang have been incorporated in English; I think not.
And if so (as if we needed proof) Latin really is a dead language.
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#9309
11/16/2000 11:13 AM
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FishonaBike said And if so (as if we needed proof) Latin really is a dead language.
It's been twenty years since I "studied" Latin. "Study" would be overstating the case, and my fourth-form Latin teacher would agree with me. However, although I now stumble over anything more complicated than "amavi, amavisti, amavit", I do remember:
"Latin is a language
As dead as dead can be
It killed the ancient Romans
And now it's killing me!"
It appears, FishonaBike, that you're quite correct! The doggerel never lies ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#9310
11/16/2000 11:41 AM
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The letter C in the Latin alphabet is always hard. Thus, caesar was pronounced Kai-sar, from which the German
monarch got his name--kaiser. Cicero was pronounced kick-er-row. How do you know for sure? Or is it hearsay?
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