#91428
01/10/2003 1:45 PM
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... between philharmonic and symphony?
New York and Berlin have philarmonic orchestras. Chicago and Paris have symphony (symphonic) orchestras. Vienna has *both kinds!
I remember learning the terms had something to do with organizational structure, but am at a loss now. Help?
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#91429
01/10/2003 3:12 PM
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...isn't its full name the "New York Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra?" Is it truly a distinction without a difference? (Anybody remember the "adrenalin/epinephrine" discussion? http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=50359There the only difference was Latin/Greek.)
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#91430
01/10/2003 3:33 PM
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The dictionary definition of "philharmonic" points out that many orchestras are dependent
on societies that support them financially, and it is the societies that are "philharmonic".
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#91431
01/10/2003 3:46 PM
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in the classical sense, the orchestra itself could be said to be "philharmonic".
Philharmonic: A symphony orchestra or the group that supports it. from AHD
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#91432
01/10/2003 4:35 PM
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What Dr Bill said resonates. Maybe this is an old-fashioned distinction, since all orchestras, far as I know (not to mention choruses!) are dependent of financial support....?
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#91433
01/11/2003 6:33 PM
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This got me thinking, so I looked it up in my Cdn Oxford. All I found for "philharmonic" was:
1. fond of music
2. used characteristically in the names of orchestras, choirs etc.
Then for "symphony orchestra" I found:
a large orchestra suitable for playing symphonies etc.
So many it does have to do with the composition? maybe you need to have a certain number and variety of instruments to be a "symphony orchestra"? Just a thought....
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#91434
01/13/2003 3:14 PM
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mg:
I would have just assumed that a symphony orchestra has enough instruments to play most symphonies.
TEd
TEd
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#91435
01/13/2003 3:48 PM
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TEd - d'ye not think that's why they call 'em that?! ie, perhaps just an orchestra is not necessarily a symphony orchestra - therein lies the differmints? just wondering....
After all, isn't there such a thing as a chamber orchestra? which, of necessity, is smaller, since it gotta fit into a chamber. A chamber orchestra would not, methinks, be playing symphonies.
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#91436
01/13/2003 3:59 PM
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A chamber orchestra would not, methinks, be playing symphonies.Herewith the 2002-2003 Subscription Series of the Cayuga Chamber Orchestra. Note that four of the five concerts include symphonies. http://www.ithaca.ny.us/Orgs/CCO/series.htm#subscript
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#91437
01/13/2003 4:51 PM
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Following this logic, a philharmonic orchestra plays philharmonies.
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#91438
01/13/2003 4:56 PM
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#91439
01/13/2003 4:59 PM
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Ha! thanks for that, tsuwm 
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#91440
01/13/2003 5:41 PM
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Yeah, thanks, tsuwm. How do you-all find these sites?? Look what the guy has on another page (the bolding is mine):
You have found your way to The Gallimaufry!
(gallim MAW free)
aka salmagundi, aka olio, aka melange, aka amalgam,
aka miscellany, aka hodge-podge, aka potpourri
All this really means is that I own a thesaurus.
This is a collection of small items that fit nowhere else.
And on another page begins his description of my favorite poet: William Blake was born 28 November 1757, third and strangest son of James Blake and his wife Catherine1. His life started off weird and never improved. (Is this guy from New Zealand?)
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#91441
01/13/2003 6:02 PM
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>Is this guy from New Zealand?
no, but his name is Kevin and he claims Green Bay for a home... hmmm, that's convenient to Chicago.... (hi musick!)
>How do you-all find these sites??
well, this one via "symphony vs. philharmonic", as it happens. :)
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#91442
01/13/2003 7:09 PM
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Herewith the 2002-2003 Subscription Series of the Cayuga Chamber Orchestra. Note that four of the five
concerts include symphonies.
Well, I had a look - you're right, of course - but I also looked at "Orchestra Personnel." Rather a lot of them for a chamber orchestra, aren't there?
Or what IS the definition of "chamber orchestra"? I tried looking that up in my trusty dic and couldn't find it. Are there a certain number of players, or is there a certain range of instruments, or some combination, or, like, what? [twirling-hair-snapping-gum e]
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#91443
01/13/2003 7:17 PM
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They make chambers bigger nor what they useta.
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#91444
01/13/2003 8:35 PM
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MG - Personally, I'd hope symphonies are "fond of music".
His life started off weird and never improved.
Written by a 'professional musician', no doubt.
----------------
Just because a composer intends thier werk to be played by 30 violins dosen't mean you can find 30 of 'em that you'd want to hear play at the same time... but I digress.
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#91445
01/14/2003 11:24 AM
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I think you need the music dictionary to look up chamber orchestra. I found some excerpts near the bottom of this page: http://www.shilakowskyarts.com/professorharrisshil.htmBasically it says that it used to mean a group where each instrument had a part (rather than being divided up into sections). The definition (apparently taken from the Oxford Dictionary of Music) goes on to say: There are organizations calling themselves 'Chamber Orchestra' that are merely small ordinary orchestra. The term is a new one and has not yet settled down to precise meaning...."So there you have it. FWIW.
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#91446
01/14/2003 6:14 PM
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Thanks Bean. I wondered if some sort of evolution of that sort was going on....since the Cayuga Chamber Orchestra seemed HUGE to me....
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