#88435
12/03/2002 12:06 PM
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This is not so much a question as an observation about a definition I read yesterday:
Merganser: a diving duck
Now this amused me because, if you look at the definition as being generic rather than specific, it would mean any diving duck would be a merganser.
You gotta be a pretty careful merganser when going after definitions. Definitions can be wily things when you bring 'em to the surface. They can get away from you!
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#88436
12/03/2002 12:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
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When I was just a sprout we had a story we read in an English class. The story took place in Australia and had a kookaburra in it. The glossary at the end of the story defined the kookaburra as a laughing jackass. This is/was a slang phrase for the bird which has a call that sounds like the braying of an ass. In a quiz we were asked to define the word kookaburra. I was the only person who was interested enough to have noticed that the creature was, in fact, a bird. This includes the teacher. I was told that my answer was wrong.
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#88437
12/03/2002 12:21 PM
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Did you define kookaburra as "a laughing jackass" or something like "a bird that is a laughing jackass"? It's hard to believe that you teacher wouldn't have known the kookaburra is a bird.
Still, imagine some chortling yokel taking a deep dive and someone in the crowd watching him saying, "That merganser is a kookaburra."
See, Faldage? We understand each other!
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#88438
12/03/2002 12:25 PM
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Posts: 6,296
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"The winter diet of brant consists mainly of eelgrass, but includes sea lettuce and sea cabbage. The summer diet includes grasses, algae, mosses, other plants, and marine invertebrates." OK. To learn more about this red-footed duck, I read a general reference on Google and the above phrase. I hadn't seen the word brant before, so looked it up. It means a type of goose. The merganser is a duck. So why is that word brant there? Beats me. I'll go look up the url to the article and past it below in a minute. http://www.ducks.org/waterfowling/gallery/index.asp?duck=79
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#88439
12/03/2002 2:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
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When is a goose a duck? When it's a merganser. Merganser is literally "sea goose".
Ein gut gebratene Gans ist eine gute Gabe Gottes.
P.S. Oh, dear. Wordwi;nd has caught me committing a folk etymology.
When a duck do? it submerges.
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#88440
12/03/2002 2:12 PM
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The source below doesn't indicate that the merganser is a sea goose, but a diving goose (thought it's really a duck--and I have no idea what makes a duck a duck and a goose a gooose): "1. merganser [n.] |ETYM| Spanish <mergánsar>, from <mergo> a diver (Latin <mergus>, from <mergere> to
dip, dive) + <ánsar> goose, Latin <anser>. , Large crested fish-eating diving duck having a slender hooked bill with serrated edges; <SYN.> fish duck, sawbill, sheldrake. 2. hooded merganser [n.] Small North American duck with a high circular crest on the male's head; <SYN.> hooded sheldrake, Lophodytes cucullatus. 3. American merganser [n.] Common North American diving duck considered a variety of the European goosander; <Also called:> Mergus merganser americanus. 4. red-breasted merganser [n.] Widely distributed merganser of America and Europe; <SYN.> Mergus serrator. "
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#88441
12/03/2002 2:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
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I got just one question:
Huh?
All seriousness aside, the defintion in the book was a laughing jackass, just that, no more. The important lesson that I did not learn (and I now realize the error of my ways) was that what I was supposed to do was to regurgitate, unprocessed, whatever it was that the teacher thought was correct.
Mea culpa(to the tune of Frere Jacques)
Mea culpa,
mea culpa,
mea ma
xima cul
pa mea maxima
culpa mea maxi
ma culpa
ma culpa.
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#88442
12/03/2002 2:30 PM
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Faldage,
You implied that you were the only one who realized the kookaburra was a bird.
I still don't understand what your answer was. Did you reply that the kookaburra was a laughing jackass or did you reply that the kookaburra was a bird--or even both? In other words, what was your answer that your teacher believed was incorrect?
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#88443
12/03/2002 2:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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And you said we understood each other. Harrumph!®
I said that the kookaburra was a bird. The definition in the glossary associated with the story said that a kookaburra was a laughing jackass. I don't remember the story per se but I do remember that I was able to figure out that it was a bird. Whether from context in the story or from some outside reference I don't remember. The lesson I *did learn (not the above referenced lesson that I was *supposed to learn) was that authority is not always correct. This means that I will always ask, "Why question Authority?"
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#88444
12/03/2002 2:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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Does "xima cul" mean "baissez moi la derriere"?
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#88445
12/03/2002 2:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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teachers are a strange lot. once, in a HS honors Eng. class, I wrote a story that had a car 'careering' out of control down a hilly road. it was red-lined, "no such word"; so when I did my edit (something she often asked us to do) I changed the word to 'careening', and was duly rewarded with "no such word". in spite of her, I maintained an interest in words.
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#88446
12/03/2002 2:50 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Dear tsuwm: It sounds to me as though the school chose a lousy candidate for an English
honors course. Realistically, qualified teachers for such a course must be hard to find.
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#88447
12/03/2002 3:00 PM
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Posts: 13,803
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no such wordInteresting, considering the amount of ink spilled over the insistence that careen should not be used when career is called for. For an enjoyable romp through the history of meaning shift, see the Usage Note for careen in the AHD http://www.bartleby.com/61/6/C0110600.html
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#88448
12/03/2002 3:24 PM
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Posts: 10,542
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>Interesting, considering the amount of ink spilled...
perhaps not all that interesting in that the event happened... oh, just a career of years ago.
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#88449
12/03/2002 3:27 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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I learned the word "careen" from sea stories, where on long tropical voyages the hull
got so fouled, the ship had to be beached, where by tipping whole ship sidewise,
half of the hull was completely exposed for removal of the barnacles, etc. This being
done with ship motionless made it hard for me to see "careen" as describing violent
motion. And having learned "career" as curriculum vitae, which is seldom characterized
by rapid sustained change, I could not find it useful to descrive pedal to the metal
zigzag driving.
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#88450
12/03/2002 3:38 PM
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Posts: 13,803
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The extended meaning of careen came about from the leaning over of sailing ships due to high winds and/or heavy seas. This can be done in slow motion, but for it to happen to any other sort of vehicle, high speeds are normally required. That careen took over the duty of career is hardly surprising considering the lack of rapid sustained change normally associated with other definitions of the latter term.
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#88451
12/03/2002 3:43 PM
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Actually, Faldeggio, I did understand you, but wanted to make sure that I had understood correctly. It was so hard to believe that a teacher would not know that a kookaburra was a bird. I'm still shaking my head. But that's why I kept asking.
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#88452
12/03/2002 6:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
Commiserations, tsuwm. For me, it was getting the "no such word" redlining through "implode", used correctly, in the equivalent of 3rd grade. 
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#88453
12/03/2002 6:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
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Here is a site with a list of 17 species of diving ducks. Click on one of the species in the left coulumn for a photo and biological info (there are three types of mergansers listed). And click on the "Swans and Geese" link, Dub-Dub, for the answer to your question about their difference from ducks (there's also a "brant" link there): http://lavoieverte.qc.ec.gc.ca/faune/guide/html/canards_plong_e.html
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#88454
12/03/2002 6:49 PM
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Posts: 10,542
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The page cannot be found
careening along, it's deja vu all over again...
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#88455
12/03/2002 6:51 PM
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Posts: 4,189
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Just tried the link, tsuwm...it opened fine for me???
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#88456
12/03/2002 7:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
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The page cannot be found
pour moi, aussi. I think you just made it up, Juan.
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#88457
12/03/2002 7:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Worked fine for me, too. Interesting that the Swans and Geese page defines the differences between the swans and geese (Anserinae) and the ducks (Anatinae) in terms of their similarities.
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#88458
12/03/2002 7:40 PM
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Posts: 4,189
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unfound pagesStrange...it's the Environment Canada site (maybe Bean is familiar with it?). Here's the absolute homepage url (it's a pretty extensive site), but I don't have a clue how to get to the duck pages from here: http://www.ec.gc.ca/And here's a paste-up from the "Diving Ducks" page: >Diving ducks frequent the larger, deeper lakes and rivers, and coastal bays and inlets. The colored wing patches of these birds lack the brilliance of the speculums of dabbling ducks. Since many of them have short tails, their huge, paddle feet may be used as rudders in flight, and are often visible on flying birds. When launching into flight, most of this group patter along the water before becoming airborne. They feed by diving, often to considerable depths. To escape danger, they can travel great distances underwater, emerging only enough to show their head before submerging again. They feed on fish, shellfish, mollusks, and aquatic plants. Canvasbacks and Redheads fattened on eel grass or wild celery are notable exceptions. Since their wings are smaller in proportion to the size and weight of their bodies, they have a more rapid wingbeat than dabbling ducks.< Mebbe you guys are dabbling ducks and this is for diving ducks only! 
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#88460
12/03/2002 8:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
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tsuwm, did you try clicking on the "site map" link on the left? All the windows are there if you can open it. Here's the "site map" url, from tsuwm's link, in case anyone else has problems with the other links: http://lavoieverte.qc.ec.gc.ca/faune/faune/html/plan_site_e.html
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#88461
12/03/2002 8:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
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I had no trouble with the link eider. 
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#88462
12/03/2002 8:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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I had no trouble with the link eider.
Neider did I, it came down just fine.
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#88463
12/03/2002 8:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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one of the site map links says this:
Breeding Bird Atlas (book to sale)
which is one of those UK/US differences we've talked about before: (book for sale)
but, did we ever discuss why this particular change came about?
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#88464
12/03/2002 8:26 PM
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Makes no sense to me. Book to sell I could see but.
Do we have any idea which, if either, is original?
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#88465
12/03/2002 8:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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BTW, the link problem seems to be with Netscape Navigator..
it works for me in IE.
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#88466
12/03/2002 8:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
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dump Navigator 4.X, and get http://www.mozilla.org. I would guess that most of us have had similar experiences with teachers; those who would give up on a good word fight wouldn't be interested in what we do here! mine was transparent-translucent-opaque. She was convinced that translucent was clearer than transparent, or some such thing.
formerly known as etaoin...
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#88467
12/03/2002 8:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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>which is one of those UK/US differences we've talked about before: (book for sale)
Whar?! Are you saying UKns would say "book to sale"? Aargh, that's jes plain ugly!
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#88468
12/03/2002 8:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 261 |
Hey, hey! I say book for sale.
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#88469
12/03/2002 8:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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Hey, hey! I say book for sale.
That's what I figured. I ain't never heard no Prisoner of Muvver England say "to sale" neither. Yrch!
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#88470
12/03/2002 10:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
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Book to sale
Would this have any relation to "apartment to let"...?
BTW, I've always heard and said "book for sale".
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#88471
12/03/2002 10:48 PM
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Posts: 6,296
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No problem opening any link.
And now I know what a dabbling duck is. Oh, joy! The lifelong learning offered here for us word dabblers.
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#88472
12/03/2002 10:55 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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Dear WW: Somehow you reminded me of Eeyore complaining out the others being inconsiderate
in trampling on the nettles, which made them less appetising to him. Some word dabblers
muddy up words in a way that impairs my enjoymente for them.
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#88473
12/04/2002 1:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
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I've never heard book to sale before and quite frankly never want to again. In reply to:
Would this have any relation to "apartment to let"...?
No. Let here is a verb. To let, meaning to rent out. The equivalent would be book to sell.
Bingley
Bingley
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