Well, I have a comment to make. [Deep-breath-e]

"First from last" is a valid way of thinking, speaking and writing to indicate "penultimate." I now can at least see that "first from last" has validity, even though "next to last" is the more common term. I won't use "first from last," but will stick with "next to last" because it's easily understandable. I will also use "penultimate" when I want to sound like a smart aleck.

However, even though I understand "first from last," I see that "second from last" is the same thing as "first from last." This is perhaps a linguistic paradox. Ain't English fun?

I'm convinced that, in my little neck of the woods, the children have no problem with shouting out in unison the correct positions (the way I reckon 'em) when asked for "third from last" (i.e., antepenultimate), "second from last" (i.e., penultimate), and even "seventh from last" positions. I know this because I tried it again today. The only problem I encountered today was with one class in which a rebellious student decided to identify "first" (true first: to the far left) as "last." So beats on the independent spirit in the human race. [Essentially, the student in question identified the kettle drums as the duck in "Peter and the Wolf," but I do believe that student has a cognitive processing problem that goes a bit beyond first and last.]

Although I haven't asked my kids about "first from last," I have a sneaking suspicion that they would also identify that position as "second from last" if I hadn't used "second from last" first. I could try it out next week just to see.

But what I suggest here is that because "first from last" is such a rare expression, that "next to last" is the best bet to use if you want to be understood. If you use "penultimate," you're going to lose part of your audience who will, as birdseed has observed, will think you mean the ultimate or last position.

The whole point here is to be understood. "Know your audience." And, if the world at large is your audience, I don't expect many of them to be lost by "next to last," "third from last," "fourth from last," and so on. I think they will naturally count, using ordinal numbers, just as my aged parents and young children did.

Tonight I will ask my dad to identify the first from last number on the notecard just to see what his reaction is.

I will tell you my dad is a kidder. I would tell you the coyote tale he told me tonight, but I'll save that for Animal Safari if someone starts a coyote thread. You know, like: "What is the adjective form of coyote?"

Whether first from last, second away from last, third from the end, or fourth away from the last, it's debatable whether we should, in every instance, save the best for last.

Best regards,
WW