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Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
Without wishing to put the cat among the pigeons, I think there is some merit in establishing that scientific thought isn't the be-all and end-all.
I agree very strongly that such thinking shouldn't be used as a means of promoting any political agenda, let alone one that could be seen as favouring ignorance and laziness. But sometimes it's important to realise that theories are just theories, however well they have worked up to now, and that science doesn't have all the answers.
This seems to me be to be at the heart of the problem - extremism. One extreme is the deified scientist/technocrat (a laAsimov's Foundation series). The other is the ludicrous POMO who seems to suggest that there can be no such thing as objectivity, without considering the paradoxical nature of such a statement.
I admire the commitment to the pursuit of knowledge that most scientists display, but I would never assume that an inclination toward more structured, logical thinking processes somehow confers immunity from human foibles like bias, selfishness and susceptibility to external influences. Rather than treat scientists as almost infallible demi-gods, or dismiss them as proponents of some bizarre elitist conspiracy, why not simply applaud the contribution that science and its practitioners have made to our society and recognise that others have equally valid contributions to make? This seems especially true since the very objectivity that science values can cause problems. The ability to work on issues in a moral vacuum has seen scientists produce monstrous weapons of mass destruction, viewing them as simply exercises in applied science. A quote from the chaotician in Jurassic Park stuck with me in connection with the attitude apparently shared by many scientists: "You were so concerned with whether you could, you didn't think whether you should"
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347 |
Thought I'd steer clear of this heavy meta-science argument and respond instead to wseiber's:
Contrary to popular belief (at the base of many intelligence tests etc), there is no uniquely defined, "correct" way of continuing any finite number sequence.
My 9yo daughter would certainly concur with you there, wseiber. Here's a recent homework question she was given.
[Q1 and Q2 have pictures of shapes - you'll have to use your imagination]
Complete the following patterns:
1) circle, triangle, square, circle, triangle,...
(Her answer of square, circle, triangle,... was marked correct)
2) tall block, medium block, short block, tall block,...
(Her answer - medium block, short block etc - again correct)
3) 11, 21, 31,...
(Her answer? She spotted the similarity to Q1 and Q2 and gave what was to me a perfectly plausible and natural answer, i.e. 11,21,31,11,21,31,11,... Teacher, of course, marked it incorrect, and probably still has no idea where it came from, or how the questions led her "astray". I got quite a chuckle out of it - I just hope my daughter hasn't been assessed as innumerate!)
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Science:
When I went to school (girls only) we were all encouraged to be scientists. It was the way the world was going, where new challenges lay, we had the power to improve the world. I'm not sure my own children will see it the same way, although I already see in them an orientation towards science subjects.
Academic scientists (in this country, at least) are paid apallingly badly. A friend was worried when her husband (a father of three) decided to change direction and pursue an academic career three years ago. Even with her contribition to the household they would probably have to move out of their modest home in the over-priced South East of England - at least to get him through the early years of an academic career (starting pay £14,000 at the time).
http://www.ex.ac.uk/EAD/personnel/academic_scales_2000.htm
It's hard to find good science teachers, relatively easy to get places at university with lower grades because most intelligent children understand the nature of the world today. They all want to be ..... lawyers!
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Without wishing to put the cat among the pigeonsSorry, it was me who put it there in the first place. And remember, cats like eating fish, too  . Of course, bugbears also need to be deconstructed. To me, it is not devious to study and describe the place of science in society (which is the declared agenda of those people), on the contrary. What makes it depressing is the inept way they go about the business, and the prejudices they take as guidelines.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
Lol!
Actually I agree quite a lot with what Shona and you have to say.
What disappoints me about public attitudes towards science in the UK is that we equate science with scientists in a simplistic (soap opera influenced?) way, in which every anecdote, for good or ill, is then deemed to be evidence that science is 'this' or 'that'. Of course scientists are human. And guess what, they studied science, not ethics. Why should we expect greater moral perspicacity of them than we do of, say, tabloid editors? Ah well...
I'm surprised nobody picked me up on the Aristotle-philosophy mix-up that I hinted at. Particularly since that was probably the only part of my post to deal with language. Any ideas?
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
<bugbears also need to be deconstructed>
… or debugged, perhaps?
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Oy, we're back to newts again. Particularly good at debugging  .
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
In reply to:
I'm surprised nobody picked me up on the Aristotle-philosophy mix-up that I hinted at. Particularly since that was probably the only part of my post to deal with language. Any ideas?
Do you mean about Aristotle's Metaphysics just being the book that came after the one on physics rather than describing a subject that was beyond physics (the Greek word meta could mean after or beyond)?
Bingley
Bingley
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
nobody picked me up on the Aristotle-philosophy mix-upNo, but what I would have picked up on, had I been looking at the time, was your reference to dead white european males. What I cannot decide is which punctuation mark you omitted between "dead" and "white" - should it be a hyphen or a comma?
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
In the new POMO universe, commas are outdated symbols of an imperialistic, oppressive past.
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