#85461
11/02/2002 6:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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How do you pronounce his name?
I just heard Allistair Cook pronounce it "Lay-NEEN."
I say "LIH-nin."
Edit: I say LEH-nin as does Musick. At first I thought maybe lih, but I've changed my mind. But maybe not. I'll have to catch myself when I'm not aware. 'Tis possible.
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#85462
11/02/2002 6:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#85463
11/02/2002 6:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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My dictionary says: Len' in. Also gives Russian lye' nyin.
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#85464
11/02/2002 9:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
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I'm interested to see what vika has to say. I suspect Cook is pronouncing it correctly. But then, how many of us gringos pronounce Paris "correctly?"
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#85465
11/02/2002 10:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
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But then, how many of us gringos pronounce 'gringos' 'kerrectly'?
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#85466
11/03/2002 1:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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But then, how many of us gringos pronounce 'gringos' 'kerrectly'? 
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#85467
11/03/2002 11:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Until vika comes along to clear this up, I'll suggest that the proper pronunciation is either LYEH-nin or lih-NYEEN.
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#85468
11/03/2002 3:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
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Tend to use LEN-in when speaking conversationally ... and Len-eeen when I am showing off, or talking to Brits!!!
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#85469
11/03/2002 3:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
member
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I would say LYE' nyin. but I think Len-in would do. definitely not Lay-NEEN or LIH-nin. Nucular, indeed  he took the nickname after a Siberian river Lena. how do you pronounce that?
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#85470
11/03/2002 4:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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TEd
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#85471
11/03/2002 7:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Usual Brit pronunciation is LEN-in. (Same as if you knocked on your mate, Leonard's, door and asked his mum if he was there. ) But my Russian History teacher always used the proper Russian pronunciation, so I have no problems with vika's (kerrect) pronunciation. (And isn't it Ul-YAH-nov?) As to river Lena, vika, I'd have to see it written in cyrillic before I'd know if it was Lyeh - nya or Lyeh - nah. (I remember that the "Le" is Lyeh, but can't remember the rest!!). Incidently, why did L.D.Bronstein choose his pseudonym?
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#85472
11/04/2002 11:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
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RhubarbCommando,
Lena is written in cyrillic exactly the same as in latin so it's Lyeh-nah, I think
and Ul-YAH-nov
do you belive in the "Juwish conspiracy" theory? his father's surname was Uljanov, not Bronstein
AFAIK he choose Lenin because his major rival was Volgin aka Martov
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#85473
11/04/2002 12:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Neither theory nor conspiracy, vika
- Lev Davidovich Bronstein took the name Trotsky at some time after he had first been arrested for dissidence (late C19, probably) He really came to prominance in the 1905 near-revolution, when his great powers of organisation were first brought into prominence and he then went on to serve as left-hand man to Lenin through the November (or October, whichever calendar you follow) Revolution.
He went on to form and lead - with great success - the Red Army throughout the Civil War and the was against the western powers that followed.
He fled to Mexico soon after Lenin's death, where he was assassinated in 1947 edit sorry - that should read 1940! - reputedly on the orders of Comrade Djugashvilli!
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#85474
11/04/2002 1:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Friend of mine in college subscribed to the political theories of Gospodin Bronstein. He refered to himself as a troskyist rather than, as was more common, a troskyite. When asked the difference between a trotskyist and a trotskyite he said that it was the same as the difference between a socialist and a socialite.
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#85475
11/04/2002 2:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
This is an interesting thing, Faldage.
I have noticed that most adherents to particlar ideologies are refered to as " ... ites" when the referee is being pejorative, and "... ists" when the referee is expressing approval.
Is this a general "rule?" Are there exceptions with which will provide proof?
And what is the position of "...ian?"
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#85476
11/04/2002 3:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47 |
In March 1921, at the Kronstadt Rising when the Red Army under Tukachevsky massacred the sailors (the former heroes of the revolution), left communists in New York were heard to pronounce the name "Lenin, Schnenin" in order to belittle and mock him and undermine his political influence on the Marxist left. The same was tried with Gramsci when people took issue with the full implications of his "ideological hegemony" doctrine.
It is an extremely infantile gesture but all the same quite devestating. The stature of an individual is severely impacted upon by saying their name in a silly voice.
The correct way to pronounce Lenin as an undergraduate drunk on cheap Theakston and politics "with integrity" is "geuughhhhleeeennnnneeeeennnnnn". You try War Communism rather sitting round in your halls of residence listening to Radiohead and then speak about the "sharpening tools of class conflict"....
Maurice had better calm down and have some more rock cakes before he goes home.
Luncheon meat goes down very well with cherryade.
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#85477
11/04/2002 5:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161 |
RhubarbCommando Lev Davidovich Bronstein took the name Trotsky at some time after he had first been arrested for dissidence but of course  your question was about Trotsky. I don't know why I decided that you were asking about Lenin
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#85478
11/04/2002 10:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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In Mexico, Lenin is pronounced leh-NEEN. BTW, this gringa pronounces gringo kerrectly©
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#85479
11/05/2002 8:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
vika - your question was about Trotsky. I don't know why I decided that you were asking about LeninMainly because the thread was about Lenin, and I had gone off on a tangent!! (just for a change  ) I have been searching a bit since I asked why Leon T chose his pseudonym He took the name in 1902, when he escaped from exile in Siberia (a sentence imposed on him in 1897 for organising the workers in Nikolayev into the Southern Russian Workers Union. But so far, I can't find out what is the significance of the name. Edit This is a simplified, but reasonably useful, biography, complete with pictures, of Trotsky. Still doesn't explain his pseudo, though! [sigh] http://www.fbuch.com/leon.htm
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#85480
11/05/2002 8:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Ta-daaaaah!! I've got it, at last!! Lev Davidovich Bronstein (Leon Trotsky) was born in Yanovka, Ukraine, as the son of a Jewish farm owner. He studied at Odessa and become an ardent disciple of Karl Marx in his youth. In 1896 Trotsky joined the Social Democrats and two years later he was arrested as a Marxist and exiled to Siberia. Four years later he escaped and reached England by means of a forged passport that used the name of a jailer in Odessa's prison, Trotsky.
source:- http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/trotsky.htm
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#85481
11/05/2002 1:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
member
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member
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Posts: 161 |
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#85482
11/05/2002 2:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
So, Maurice, what's with the perseveration regarding luncheon meat and cherryade?
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#85483
11/05/2002 2:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Taken concurrently, they are apt to give you the Trotskies.
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#85484
11/05/2002 3:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 47 |
Just trying to spread a little happiness. If you enjoy something, why not tell others? After all, it's all bad news these days.......
Welwyn Garden City - An Island In The Setting Sun
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#85485
11/05/2002 5:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Hey, Alex--I actually know what that is!
Jackie
(enthusiast)
Fri Jun 30 14:43:38 2000
24.4.252.105
Re: Old fashioned pronouns
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Tsuwm--
>>and ever since I've had one of the songs stuck in my head (is there a word for that?) <<
Yes, it's a form of obsession, or obsessive thinking:
Perseverance of thought. (That's per-SEV-er-ance, not
per-se-VER-ance). http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=2319
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#85486
11/07/2002 11:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over. It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over.It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over.It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over.It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over.It's also a term used in psychiatry, to describe the act of repeating the same phrase over and over.
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#85487
11/08/2002 2:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#85488
11/10/2002 3:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
It also describes other repetitive behaviors, and repetitive personalities, such as manifested by autistic people. Perserverative behavior is one of the diagnostic criteria for autism.
As the mother of an autistic boy, *sigh*, I have plenty of examples. We eat pizza for dinner EVERY FREAKING THURSDAY!
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