#8455
10/19/2000 11:40 AM
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"Way out in left field" is a phrase whose baseball meaning was questioned in another thread. I was wondering what other sayings or phrases we use may have come from that game, also:
off-base?; caught out? If you are off base in the game,
you certainly can be caught out!
If you are way out in left field, most of the time you'll be too far away to participate in the action. Though why we say left field and not right field, I haven't a clue.
I have a feeling this may happen anyway, so I'll just go ahead and issue the invitation to include phrases and sayings from other sports. This could be a good learning experience, as was the rogaine and XC skiing talk for me.
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Though why we say left field and not right field, I haven't a clue.
As I recall from my brother's Little League experiences so many years ago, left field may be the place the ball is least likely to go. My brother was not a good player at that time. He might have been one of the worst on the team. He was always in left field. Perhaps somehow the physics of hitting the ball makes it tend to go toward right field instead of left..
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when I was in little league, I was banished to *right field -- most little leaguers are right-handed and right-handed batters (all else being equal, as it generally is in little league) usually hit to the left side of the field.
here is what I found the last time this came up:
William Safire poses two theories (in his book "I Stand Corrected"): 1) it was an insult hurled at kids stupid enough to buy left field seats at Yankee Stadium in the days when Babe Ruth (great hitter, poor fielder) patrolled right field for the Yanks [but weren't most of his homeruns hit to left?] 2) at the old West Side Park in Chicago there was a mental hospital in back of left field.
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No, it is the other way around xara. The left field is where most balls go because a right-handed batter will always (well 99% of the time) hit towards the left. Try it...pretend you are batting a ball and see where your arms end up pointing (unless you are left-handed, then you will wind up batting right).
The weaker players are put in the right field because fewer balls go there since a much lower percentage of the population is left-handed.
An expression from a sport...
How about 'he is straight as an arrow' (from archery)
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old hand
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Jackie (et al)
My current favourite phrase, insofar as it intrigues me, is 'flied out'. This has not, I have to admit, entered common parlance, but Stephen Pinker's defence of it, in The Language Instinct, is so vigorous that I reached the 'methinks the lady...' stage very soon.
After some consideration (and I haven't the book to hand, I must admit) I have come to the conclusion that Pinker's reasoning is fallacious. His claim is that 'to fly out' must be viewed as a compound formation, a verb phrase, if you will. Therefore, it would go against the deep structure of the grammar to construct it in the past tense as 'flew out'. Hence 'flied out'. But as far as I can see, nothing he says prefers 'flied out' over 'fly outed'. In fact, if it is a compound verb phrase, I can only see it going the way of similar (allegedly erroneous) formations like 'mother-in-laws'.
But what do I know. The only baseball game I ever saw was one in which Sammy Sosa (1999 it was) hit two home runs, and the Cubs overwhelmed their opponents, at Wrigley Field, 6-2. I still wear my Cubs baseball cap with pride, and from time to time see how far down the table they are. There's a familiar feeling to ones favourite team not doing too well, if one also supports England in cricket, and Tottenham Hotspur in football.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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There's a familiar feeling to ones favourite team not doing too well, if one also supports Tottenham Hotspur in football.In the spirit of refined, genteel intellectualism that prevails here I would like to respond to that with a simple, restrained ARSENAL RULES! 
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Allo shanks Fly in this sentence is not a verb. It is a noun, actually a contraction for a fly ball (names a ball that has been hit way up in the air). The term "fly out" is part of a family of terms that designate the way the player has been called out (or eliminated) from the inning/game (includes ground out, strike out). When a batter hits a fly ball the chances are he is going to be called 'out' because those are seriously easy to catch. Thus the name for that move became a "fly out". It becomes a compound verb phrase when you say "he fly'd out". In its <non contracted form> this would actually be said as "he fly-balled out". But human nature being what it is, this was contracted it to "fly'd out". That is why you do not say fly outed. I hope this is clear. I haven't really had to talk grammar for many moons so I am a little rusty on the terms. I do play softball though and those are the terms we use (a bit of bragging here  ...I never fly out )
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...I never fly out
Hit 'em hard and straight, eh? Trés bon!
I thought your explanation was very good, me.
I think "flied out" is caused by the same type of mentality
that made you-all call your $2 money 'two-ny', after loony.
I guess the absolutely correct phrase is: (the batter)
hit a fly ball (which was caught, thus earning the team an out). But to say the batter "hit out" would be much too confusing (hit out of the field completely? hit out of the
fair area?). Fly-balled, or flied, out, tells exactly what
happened.
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[bleu]Hit 'em hard and straight, eh?[/bleu(sic)] Jackie, are you tip-toeing in the gutter again? And if so, may this ol' southpaw join you? (looks like fun!) 
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Well, Anna, I don't know what it is that I'm doing
(hey--I heard that!), but you're welcome to join me anytime!
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Aha! A thread of modest length at last! Having just returned from a bit of an absence to find an enormous backlog of unread postings, far too big to cope with, I will seize on our beloved Jackie's new(-ish) thread, perhaps also helping to get things back on track here(?) The ever-entertaining Bill Bryson ( Made In America) gives quite a few words and phrases picked up from baseball by many other sports and activities, such as "double play", "raincheck", "southpaw" (an interesting derivation, too long for here, YCLIU), "fan" (in the sense of supporter), "double-header" (very common in many ball games now), "to play ball" (in the sense of cooperate). He points out that baseball generated a vast vocabulary during its nineteenth century adolescence, and a complete listing would run to several pages. As a matter of interest, recent neologisms apparently include "dial 8" for a home run and "Linda Ronstadt" for a good fastball. lusy
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old hand
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I shouldn't really dignify an Arsenal supporter with a reply, but.... "Bo-o-o-o-o-o-o-ring".
(Given the way Spurs are doing right now, to be honest, even that traditional chant is probably not applicable any more. Bring back Ossie Ardiles!)
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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#8467
10/20/2000 10:59 AM
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Is that phrase "a ball-park figure" (bane of my working life) derived from baseball specifically?
Any ideas when the phrase was first used?
(People who drink a lot of beer can end up with a ball-park figure)
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#8468
10/20/2000 11:05 AM
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Interesting. I had previously though southpaw came from boxing, where traditionally the left hand of a right-hander would be held lower than the main fist. Please tell me more.
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#8469
10/20/2000 12:26 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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. Bring back Ossie Ardiles
Bring back Alf Ramsay!! - the best full-back who ever played. And whatever happened to the "W" formation, pioneered by Spurs in the '50s?
Things have never been the same since footballers started wearing crotch-length shorts and gave up using brylcreem!
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#8470
10/20/2000 12:36 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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So far as UK English is concerned, I would guess that Cricket has been the most fruitful source of words entering every-day speech.
I'm trying to think of some off the top of my head and have to admit I'm stumped. I would make some up, but I think I would be caught out of my crease. Our NZ and Oz friends would soon have me clean bowled, I suspect.
I'll stp this - no doubt you'll be glad that it is over
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I had previously though southpaw came from boxing ... Please tell me more.
The Bryson version ...
Southpaw has been attributed to Charles Seymour of the Chicago Times, because pitchers at the city's old West Side ballpark faced west, and thus a left-hander would stand with his throwing arm on his south side.
lusy
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#8472
10/21/2000 12:40 PM
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the Word Detective says this: Personally, I have doubts about this story. It's a bit too perfect, and the Oxford English Dictionary lists a non-baseball citation for "south paw," meaning a punch with the left hand, from 1848 [which predates the Seymour usage]. That's a bit early for the phrase to have come from baseball, although it's not absolutely impossible. http://www.word-detective.com/093098.html1848 Democratic B-hoy, I say, Lewy, give him a sockdologer! Curse the Old Hoss, what a south-paw he has given me! 1885 Sporting Life 14 Jan. 4/3 They had always been accustomed to having their opponents hug their bases pretty close, out of respect for Morris' quick throw over to first with that south-paw of his. [OED]
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Pooh-Bah
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>Bring back Alf Ramsay
Actually I would have thought that Stanley Matthews was more in your line - didn't he play in your neck of the woods?
This type of conversation is a little like throwing in a spoiler every now and then. It's like the big guys are discussing something we don't really understand, so we're having a conversation across theirs about something completely different. I'm amazed that anyone who doesn't speak English as a first language survives for very long!
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It's like the big guys are discussing something we don't really understand, Jo, I haven't a clue, either! Some of these names might be U.S. players, for all I know! 'SGreek to me!
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All right, this thread has now proven for a fact that liguaphiles are nerds (me included). We have all missed the obvious <out of baseball> terminology of going around the bases. How many of you gentlemen have not talked about getting to first base with your girlfriend as a teenager, and wishing for heaven by the dashboard light by getting to second, third and, miracle of miracles, home. Now ladies, admit it, youve heard of this too .
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#8476
10/23/2000 12:51 AM
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getting to first base with your girlfriend as a teenager, and wishing for heaven by the dashboard light by getting to second, third and, miracle of miracles, home.Ah, yes, the gutter widens to admit yet another entrant.
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In reply to:
I'm trying to think of some off the top of my head and have to admit I'm stumped.
Hmmm. It is a bit of a sticky wicket.
Bingley
Bingley
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Just been browsing the board and hit upon this basbeball thread. And since baseball season just opened two days ago (and since I'm hooked on the sport like a drug no matter how much they denigrate the fans with their greed...in short, I'm a baseball nut! No excuses!), I thought I'd offer a few phrases off the top of my head after reading through the thread...and I'm sure I'll be back with more!
An expression you hear often when somebody makes a mistake is..."and the big 'E' lights up on the scoreboard!"
The "E," of course, meaning 'error' in basball parlance.
One obvious term overlooked is "throwing a curve" used in a variety of ways. For instance, if you're cautioning someone about about a certain party's nefarious business practices you might say, "Watch out, or he'll throw you a curve." Also, if you're pleading fairness, or kidding a friend about giving you a hard time, you might say "don't throw me any curves" or "don't start throwing curves at me, now." But this expression is used in common parlance
in a frequent enough variety of ways that we've all heard or used it in one form or another, so I won't try to list all the contingencies here.
"Say it ain't so, Joe!" A catchphrase attached to the name of anyone we hold in esteem who suddenly disappoints us with untoward activity. First popularized, of course, when baseball great (and some people argue the game's greatest hitter ever), Shoeless Joe Jackson, was implicated in the Blacksox Scandal of 1919 when his team, the
Chicago White Sox, threw the series in a gambling fix. He was never convicted, but nevertheless banished from the game for life by baseball commissioner Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis, a great career never realized. And all the young boys of the day who looked up to him in Chicago and elsewhere started tossing that phrase at him
when they met, the papers picked on it and made it a headline, and the rest is linguistic history. Even when Pete Rose was busted for gambling in '89 the papers bellowed "Say It Ain't So, Pete!"
"Otherwise you're just swinging at air!" Another expression for spending your energies in the wrong places, missing the mark, etc., derived, of course, from the batter taking a swing at a bad pitch, missing it by a mile, and coming up embarrassingly empty. Or, "you're swinging at the air!"--various forms
"Headin' for home!" When one is closing in on an eagerly sought goal or finishing an important task. Or, as formerly pointed out, the long-hoped-for goal of adolescent boys' lecherly petting (the sweet dream, as it were!--sorry ladies...but we were all there, once, in those days of, uh, innocence!) Derived, of course, from the all-important goal of rounding third-base and heading down the base-path to home plate to score the all-important run.
Well, that's it for now...(or 'enough' I should say) Ah, baseball!...It brings the loquaciousness out in me! I'm sure I'll be back with more, and to peek at any responses...if anybody's still hitting this thread by then.
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Pooh-Bah
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"..."Linda Ronstadt" for a good fastball."
Ronstadt is also used in basketball to refer to an offensive player's drive past a defender. And for the same reason. Love that song!*
* for non-Ronstadt fans: Blue Bayou
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Welcome, Whitman, and thank you for bringing this topic back up at a most appropriate time! I am also a baseball nut [ hi Faldage ] Yogi Berra in a Zen moment: "When you see a fork in the road, take it."
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As soon as I saw this thread, I knew someone would get in cricket terms, and lo and behold, Rhuby rose to the bait. Well, that's OK by me, since cricket has more wierd expressions then baseball. After all, we have nothing to compare with the likes of "silly mid-on, googly," etc. So Shanks, Rhuby, Max, and the rest of you chaps, let us poor benighted USrs have it.
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Hi Bingley! Thought I just stop by and touch base with you.
For non baseball fans, runners must touch the base as they go round the circuit or they are out.
You can "touch base" with someone, thereby keeping in touch in a casual way.
You can also say "I touched all the bases" meaning you crossed all the "t"s and dotted all the "i"s or thoroughly completed a job.
And if you are going to a required gathering and plan to spend just a few moments then you can "touch base" and leave.
Anyone want to take on "Batter up!" & "Your outta' here!"& "in the bullpen" now that you're warmed up?
wow
The Boston RED SOX rule
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#8483
04/05/2001 12:00 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Well, there's "play hard ball" meaning to be tough or even ruthless, or at least serious. I always took this to be from baseball, where the ball is hard, as opposed to softball, where it is, uh, soft, and thus not nearly as dangerous.
In medicine, when we're on call at the hospital for new admissions (as I am tonight, lucky me), if we should be so fortunate as not to have a single admission all night, then the next day we can boast to our coworkers that we had a "no hitter." We've already had two admissions tonight, so alas, it won't be a no hitter.
In Little League we used to tease guys who struck out by calling them "Special K," after the cereal and the fact that a strikeout is recorded in the scorebook as a "K."
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Well, since Sparteye brought up in-sport slang...when a batter gets under the ball too much on a high fly giving it so much loft that it's easily caught, they say "your killin' too many birds." However, we didn't know how literal
this saying was until Randy Johnson recently disintegrated that dove with a fastball, did we? (Actually what he throws is more like a 'cannon shot!')
And just another note about "Say it ain't so..." When Pete Rose was busted you heard "Say it ain't so, Rose!" more often than "Pete." The latter is just more poetic, I guess (love that assonance!).
And, "wow"............................................................................................................................................................. for posting that last remark in blazing red I have just 2 things to say to you...Bill Buckner 'n' Bucky Dent!.............. (It's the "Curse of the Buck!"--I guess Buck Showalter will never manage in Boston!)...Sorry, you asked for it. (all in fun, of course!)
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As soon as I saw this thread, I knew someone would get in cricket terms, and lo and behold, Rhuby rose to the bait. Well, that's OK by me, since cricket has more wierd expressions then baseball. After all, we have nothing to compare with the likes of "silly mid-on, googly," etc. So Shanks, Rhuby, Max, and the rest of you chaps, let us poor benighted USrs have it.Nah, we cricket freaks have our fun on the fly and we don't need to horn in on your game. Baseball isn't a popular game in Zild, but we understand it (if not the abiding US fascination with it). And, of course, the Black Sox, our national softball team, won the world champs ... in the US, too. Go for it.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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The way the Yanks lost to the Red Sox tonight reminded me all-too-painfully of a phrase from baseball: "clutch hitter."
And also of some in-game terms like "passed ball," "up the middle," and "blown save." Well, Mariano's got to lose once or twice a year, you know...so it might as well be on Friday The 13th.
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I will refrain from mentioning the recent no hitter but content myself with noting the Pitcher in that recent game became one of just three who have pitched a no hitter in two leagues. RED SOX! RED SOX! RAH! RAH! RAH!Now, in general, about baseball: it was drawn to my attention by a psychaitrist chum who happens to be of Irish descent (rara avis) that the game of baseball is very  erotic Consider the shapes of bat and ball, and then all the double entendre ways in which the jargon has been co-opted to describe, ahem, courtship. Now, to dodge the Gutter Police, let's consider golf. OOOpps, they are lurking behind the trees in the rough!WHY, oh why, did I bring this up? {groan} I can't stop myself! HELP!wow
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By the way, wow, I didn't know how to work the Mark-Up before.........so, today, in 'celebration' of last night's game, let me put Bill Buckner 'n' Bucky Dent in blazing NY BLUE just for you! And, speaking of baseball eroticism, how about "hugging the bases"? Or, "hug the base," "hug the bag'?
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Notice how I cleverly substituted erotic for sexual?
Gets us all off the hook!
Ahhh, the choice of the right word!
wow
The posts went w-i-d-e again after BelM's post .. or is it just me?!
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Hello, wow....Pedro who?
Continuing with baseball erotica...if you accuse a pitcher of wetting his fingers so he can throw a spitball you say "he's going to his mouth." And everybody knows you can't go to your mouth on the mound! Can I get away with that one, wow?
And, when we express affection as we grow older, can it then be said we are "hugging the bag"?
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Can I get away with that ...
I subscribe to Mark Twain's words about the acceptability of puns, jokes, etc.:
"as long as the humor exceeds the vulgarity."
wow
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old hand
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at the old West Side Park in Chicago there was a mental hospital in back of left
field.This reminds me of the mental hospital where the movie version of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was filmed. It is in Salem, Oregon, and is situated well off the street in front of it, having a very large lawn area between the street and the building. So, it is appropriate here in Oregon to say that the mental hospital is a good bit off Center (street). 
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old hand
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Consider the shapes of bat and ball, and then all the double entendre ways in which the jargon has been co-opted to
describe, ahem, courtship.
Well, at least you didn't choose basketball! What would the Irish shrink think of a slam dunk followed by a fast break?
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#8494
04/15/2001 11:48 PM
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I subscribe to Mark Twain's words...Thanks, wow...Twain never fails! And, by the way, reports of his death are no longer greatly exaggerated!
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