#84719
10/25/2002 3:00 PM
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stranger
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stranger
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Is "uncasual" a word? Neither my COD nor m-w.com lists it, but I have seen it being used, and it seems like it ought to be allowed. :-)
Thanks,
--Sanjay
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#84720
10/25/2002 3:03 PM
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welcome, sanjayrag!
why wouldn't you use "formal"?
formerly known as etaoin...
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#84721
10/25/2002 3:08 PM
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I think there ought to be a word for dress that is not casual, but not necessarily formal.
One can look out of place at a beach party in a business suit which is not actually formal.
But I don't have a good word for it.
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#84722
10/25/2002 3:15 PM
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veteran
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dress that is not casual, but not necessarily formalOver this side of the Pond we just talk about "smart casual" wear, Bill. Suits me  . I think uncasual has a place as an ironic term, though. Think about the difference between: 1. He had a formal manner. 2. He had a casual manner. 3. He had an uncasual manner. To me it implies that the subject is trying to look casual (and relaxed) but is failing to carry it off. Stilted, perhaps.
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#84723
10/25/2002 3:17 PM
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stranger
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stranger
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Well, it made a big difference in my Scrabble game last night. I just want to know if "uncasual" exists in any dictionary. Re usage I can see its application when you want a different shade of meaning for "formal".
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#84724
10/25/2002 5:52 PM
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well, according to Official Scrabble® Player's Dictionary, 3rd Edition, you lose. http://www.hasbroscrabble.com/pl/page.toolbox/dn/home.cfmunsurprisingly, it's not in W3 (same publisher); I don't have OED access at the moment, but can check later..
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#84725
10/25/2002 7:02 PM
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Then who in their *right mind would allow "informal" into the fold? [ducking-e]
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#84726
10/25/2002 7:06 PM
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Are you suggesting 'incasual" might be a better alternative?
Dyoooood!
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#84727
10/25/2002 7:10 PM
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I don't have OED access at the moment...Show-off. 
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#84728
10/25/2002 7:14 PM
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no, i think he is just pointing out the unfair, illogical stance.. the allow formal and informal, and (formal and) casual, but not (casual and) uncasual..
formal and informal is not the same as casual..
I might formally adress someone as Dr Smith, in a public setting, but in private i would be informal, and call them Joan. but i might also be casual, and call someone Dr. Joan, (or as we do here, Dr bill!) uncasual is a bit harder, but i see it as valid word. (scrabble dictionary not withstanding!)
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#84729
10/25/2002 7:35 PM
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I love when people put words in my mouth... but, then again, I've been wooed into a loving mood.  ------------ To keep from not being inconsistent, I gotta go with AnnaF assesment of this one. 'Incasual' even sounds better... just like 'unconsistent' woodent. I'm always willing to let my ears reign over logic...
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#84730
10/25/2002 7:43 PM
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I'm always willing to let my ears reign over logic... Dyoood!
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#84731
10/25/2002 8:06 PM
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dearest love, i started by saying no, i think he is saying and so, made it clear your words were open to being interpted differently, and that what i was expressing was my understanding (how ever warped that might be,) not pehaps not your intended meaning! we all know how easy it is to have a misunderstanding. tweedledee and tweedledum!
i am tone deaf, (as well as thick headed) but i think 'incasual' is horrid! i will support uncasual, but not incasual!
and perhaps, since my words were taken so kindly, i will continue to woo you.. but i am as apt at wooing as i am as spelling so it likely to be a strange romance!
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#84732
10/25/2002 8:12 PM
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...the OED reveals that uncasual was used at least once in the dimly viewed past, with an olde spelling:
1618 SYLVESTER Panaretus 781 Besides th' off-cutting of All Passages,..Is even to conquer by uncasuall course.
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#84733
10/25/2002 8:20 PM
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but perhaps of more interest is this:
Un- is freely prefixed to adjectives of all kinds, except where a Latin form in in-, etc., has definitely established itself in common use. Both forms, however, may co-exist, and in some cases a new formation with un- has been introduced when that with in- has acquired a connotation which it is desirable to avoid. The form with un- is then purely negative, while the other may have almost a positive sense, e.g. un-moral in contrast with immoral. (When the form with un- has similarly acquired a positive implication, the simple negative or neutral sense is expressed by the use of non- or not-.) There is also considerable restriction in the use of un- with short simple adjectives of native origin, the negative of these being naturally supplied by another simple word of an opposite signification. There is thus little or no tendency now to employ such forms as unbroad, undeep, unwide, unbold, unglad, ungood, unstrong, unwhole, unfew, etc., which freely occur in the older language. On the other hand, derivative forms in -al, -ant, -ar, -ary, -ent, -ful, -ic, -ical, -ile, -ish, -ive, -ly, -ory, -ous, -y, etc., are too numerous to be completely recorded. The general character of the less usual or permanent of these and other adjectival forms is illustrated by the following examples, which are a severly restricted selection, and could be indefinitely increased by the addition of less noteworthy material.
In dictionaries of various dates many formations are given of which no real instance has been found. Levins (1570) has unhateful, unprecious. Florio (1598 and 1611) renders equivalent Italian words in in- by such forms as unavailful, unbrittle, uncontinuall, uncoy, unempty, unfrail, unnice, unoffensible, unopen, unplenteous, unshrill, unvalorous. Ash (1775) gives unalphabetical, unattendant, uncohesive, uncompatible, uncompressible, uncompulsive, etc. (about 80 in all). Later dictionaries (Webster, Worcester, etc.), with or without indication of source, have the entries unabundant, unbiographical, uncogent, uncollectible, undeceptive, undeliberative, etc.
Recent formations include: unadult, un-African, unairworthy, unambivalent, unarcadian, unarchæological, un-Australian, unbitchy, unblameworthy, unblasé, unbureaucratic, un-Byronic, uncerebral, uncharismatic, unchic (also absol.), un-Chinese, unchipper, unchoosy, un-Christmassy, uncomfy, uncomposite, uncomradely, unconscient, uncool [esp. cool a. 4e] (also absol.), uncooperative, uncosy, uncranky, uncreditworthy, uncuddlesome, uncuddly, un-Darwinian, undeducible, un-Dickensian, undimensional, undisastrous, undoctrinaire, undynamic, unecological, uneconomic, unecstatic, unecumenical, unegoistic, unegotistic, unegotistical, unerotic, unetymological, unexotic, unfaery (poet.), unfeline, unfeminist, unflamboyant, unflashy, unfond, unfresh, unfurtive, un-Gaelic, ungay, ungimmicky, unglamorous, ungroovy, unhep (also absol.), unhip (also absol.), unhors(e)y, unideological, unintrospective, unirksome, unironic, unironical, un-Islamic, un-Italian, un-Jamesian, un-Japanese, unjingoistic, unkeen (also absol.), unkosher, unlegendary, unlocal, unmarital, un-Marxist, unmawkish, unmeritocratic, unneurotic, unodoriferous, unopen, unpacifist, unphonemic, unphon(e)y (also absol.), unphotogenic, unplatonic, unpolemical, unpolicemanly, unpositive, unprestigious, unpriggish, unprivate, un-Proustian, unpugnacious, unradiogenic, unresilient, unrevolutionary, unrisky, unroadworthy, un-Russian, unscenic, unseductive, unselective, unsemantic, unsexy, un-Shelleyan, unsnobbish, unsorry, un-Spanish, unspecial, unspectacular, unstarchy, unsterile, unstiff, unstuffy, unsycophantic, unsymmetric, untendentious, untense, untherapeutic, unthistly, unticklish, untogether, untouristy (also absol.), untraditional, untrendy, unurgent, unutilitarian, unviable, un-Victorian, unviolent, unvisual, un-Western, un-with-it, unworthwhile, unyoung.
[usage examples abound]
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#84734
10/25/2002 8:22 PM
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Rocky and I are in the middle of a bachelor party, so today there is only *so much love to go around... ---------- Helen - A) I saw the "no I think..." part from you, 2) "...intended meaning!"??? &) Does 'uncomprehensible' sound less horrid? Love is found with many threads attached...
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#84735
10/25/2002 8:36 PM
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(When the form with un- has similarly acquired a positive implication, the simple negative or neutral sense is expressed by the use of non- or not-.)I had wondered about non, but maybe that's really a fourth sense. casual, uncasual, non-casual, formal. oops, five: informal. hey, what about unformal?  feel the love...
formerly known as etaoin...
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#84736
10/25/2002 8:42 PM
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so we can make this into a continuum, thus:
formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual
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#84737
10/25/2002 8:47 PM
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thanks, tsyouwm! hey, that's why it can be q-pon! sorry for the cross-thread.
formerly known as etaoin...
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#84738
10/25/2002 8:55 PM
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Ok--if we can have formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual-- how is it that guys think 3 pairs of shoes will do for all occations, and sometimes actualy express the idea that women are crazy for having a dozen (or 6 dozen, but let's not quibble over numbers)
clearly, you need at least 8 pairs of shoes.. one each of
formal<>incasual<>uncasual<>nonformal<>noncasual<>unformal<>informal<>casual style!
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#84739
10/25/2002 9:27 PM
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in the middle of a bachelor party
Am I invited?
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#84740
10/25/2002 9:44 PM
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Sure! Are you a batchlore?
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#84741
10/25/2002 10:14 PM
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stranger
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tsuwm,
Thanks for the OED research. I guess there are too many legal un- formations to list in the Scrabble dictionary.
Thanks again.
--
...the OED reveals that uncasual was used at least once in the dimly viewed past, with an olde spelling:
1618 SYLVESTER Panaretus 781 Besides th' off-cutting of All Passages,..Is even to conquer by uncasuall course.
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#84742
10/27/2002 1:31 PM
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a new formation with un- has been introduced when that with in- has acquired a connotation which it is desirable to avoid
- For instance if you want to emphasise the word, making an ironic use of opposites? Using a "new" (or little-known) construction such as uncasual works well in that sort of context, I think.
You can also bring in double-negatives to good effect:
"He was not uncasual"
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#84743
10/28/2002 1:51 AM
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"He was not uncasual"
Shona, that's litotes. [proud of herself for remembering something for once e]
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#84744
10/28/2002 11:55 PM
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#84745
10/29/2002 1:18 AM
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And I should have remembered myself:
Great minds are alike, I see. [conspiratorial smile]
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#84746
10/30/2002 11:45 AM
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old hand
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