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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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going back to Milo's original post, don't the aboriginal people of australia have thousands of languages? geopgraphic isolation was (is?) supposed to be the main contributer to the variety.
American peoples at some early point in populating the continent, killed off many of the large mammals, leaving very few for possible domestication. with no large draft animals, no evolution to domestication and use of the wheel.
and with no large domesticated animals, people who moved off, to a far place, because of war, or banishment, or what ever, would loose contact with the old ways, and the old words.
words that worked in the northern plattues of montana, could not be used to express the rolling hills of iowa. new words needed to be created to express the new animals, geography, weather, trees, and changed life style.
it took thousands and thousands of years for corn (maize) to move from central mexico where it was first domesticated to the rest of the americas. (in contrast, domesticated animals and grains move rapidly in the fertile cresent, and then to all of of the mediterranian) partly it was the climate, (the area in near east share a more common climate) and partly, it was an already established trade route, using domestic animals.
(and inspite of this, there are hundreds of languages in the area from say, israel/syria on the Mediterranian, and say india)
trade and contact might have caused some languages to consolidate, just as distance might have caused american languages to fracture, and change.
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
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moving right along...
The methods of Johanna Nichols in determining the regularity of a major split off a prime language stock involve correlations with language groups whose dates of isolation from their language roots are already known. For example some of the languages of New Guinea share a language stock with some of the languages of Australia: in particular, a grammar, called "concord classes", in which verbs and pronouns have to agree with nouns as to gender. Since the migration of mankind into Australia and New Guinea is dated by other means as occurring some 50,000 years ago this gives a top date for her to average 4,000 years increments of major deviations from major stocks.
I guess.
Anyway some of the features of the structural form of languages that she watches for as markers of 4,000 year changes she calls "ergativity" a feature of languages that uses special prefixes or suffixes to modify a verb. For example, the tense of an ergative verb may be indicated by a prefix other than a different form of the verb. Another example given is the Chinese and Navajo use of tone to modify or change the meaning of words. These, as well, are said to be very old and very entrenched structural forms to consider when monitoring changes as they relate to time.
Maybeso.
(Coming next: two waves of migration into the americas calibrated - sorta- by mitochondrial DNA.)
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stranger
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stranger
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AD/BC became so widely used that it lost its religious connotation and became a generic indicator of an accepted time reference frame
Agree. How often do you see "C.C." at the bottom of a letter preceding the name of a person who is copied on the letter? Does anyone remember that "C.C." is the abbreviation for "carbon copy"? Does it really matter?
I worked for Xerox for a time and they used to write "X.C." at the bottom of their letters, but it never caught on with their customers.
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veteran
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veteran
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using the phrase 30,000 years ago and then giving a date of 28,000 BC is unnecessarily clumsy
I agree and don't agree.
If you're talking about times tens of thousands of years ago, two thousand years doesn't make much difference either way. You could use BP or BC.
As regards AD (Anno Domini), there are a lot of conventions in time measurement, and we all have to start the clock somewhere. There is no way you are going to get societies to agree as to when modern civilization started, so you just have to treat the number used for the current year as you do time zones and languages. "When in Rome.."
If I call the current year 2002, it doesn't make me a Christian; nor does it mean I believe Jesus was born 2002 years ago. I'm merely sharing a convention for convenience.
Edit: Arg! Chopped Juan!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"When in Rome.."
That's pretty good advice, and you'll probably find that BP is used primarily in dates that are long, long ago. I've seen BC dates given without bothering to include the BC in writings about, e.g., the classical Greeks. I find it a little disconcerting after doing the math to discover that Euclid was roughly minus 60 years old when he died. Sometimes I wish that historians would (speaking of "When in Rome...") use dates measured from the founding of the city.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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it would make sense to pick some date, back to some idea of recorded history, and start there, say 10, 20, or 30,000 years ago. it would help to put things in a historical context. not likely to happen, but it would be a good idea.  as far as sparse records, and sudden appearances of written tablets, it seems to me this could be an example of chaotic bifurcation; the rapid development or spread of an idea. "springing full-blown" as it were... chaos "theory" offers some interesting insight in to natural processes. sorry, rambling a bit...
formerly known as etaoin...
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2002
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sudden appearances of written tablets
Speaking of the sudden appearance of written tablets, did you read that they just discovered a sign inscribed with the latin name for London, "Londinium", in an archeological dig in London, England dating back to the 1st Century AD. Is this an example of "chaotic bifurcation", etaoin? Or perhaps "chaotic bifurexcavation"?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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definitely the latter! I was referring to WO'N's post about the lack of in-between or prior material for some discoveries...
formerly known as etaoin...
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addict
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addict
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It would make sense to pick some date, back to some idea of recorded history, and start there, say 10, 20, or 30,000 years ago. it would help to put things in a historical context.
How about 2001 years, 9 months, 14 days, 10 hours and 10 minutes ago (Adelaide time)?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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How about 2001 years, 9 months, 14 days, 10 hours and 10 minutes ago (Adelaide time)?nah, too easy. nobody would have to change their historical paradigm... 
formerly known as etaoin...
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