#8337
10/19/2000 11:53 PM
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That is so my sherona!
Arrrkkk!
I grow old
I grow old
I shall wear the bottom of my trousers
rollmop herring
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#8338
10/20/2000 12:03 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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tsuwm, .... you're also the research king!
Quoting your scary auntie without credit, eh? Ah, it's the fate of the creative to be wantonly plagiarized [sigh]
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Ah, it's the fate of the creative to be wantonly plagiarized [sigh]I can't see the word "plagiarise" without hearing Tom Lehrer's infectious little ditty: "Plagiarise, let no one else's work evade your eyes." 
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old hand
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old hand
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Hi Anna.. No reason to complain, really. Better to be plagiarized twice than never quoted .
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old hand
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old hand
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Yup.
Presumably you made the inference that the car company in question is Toyota? Or is it a deep-rooted Ford/GM conspiracy to get viewers so irritated with Toyota that they never buy their products again?
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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I fear I neglected to mention: I luuuuuuuuurve "chopped" liver, especially in a nice rich gravy, accompanied by mash & peas. And especially at this time of year. So yes, Anna, you are chopped liver. 
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Tom Lehrer, max - now you're dang tootin' ! (bet no one really talks like that) Masochism Tango was always one of my favourites (which probably has some connection to my almost instantaneous addiction to this Board ):
I ache for the touch of your lips, dear
But much more for the touch of your whips, dear
You can raise whelts
Like nobody else
As we dance to the Masochism Tango
What album is 'Plagiarize' off?
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the fate of the creative
Auntie,
Did you ever refer to tsuwm as a were-daddy?
You did not.
Did you ever refer to him as a king?
You did not.
Did you ever mention the words "researcher" and "tsuwm" in the same sentence (and maybe some other words such as "awesome", "intelligent" and "charismatic") ?
Just possibly, but I may have come to the same conclusions totally independently; in a similar way to (for instance) fire having been discovered in many places at the same time.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case!
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#8345
10/20/2000 10:33 AM
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I've had a good old thunk* about the matters raised in this thread, which mostly relate to getting a suss on the people behind the personae (check out Avy's Impersonet bit); and I've come to an interesting conclusion. A Board where people operate under pseudonyms and are not obliged to reveal any more about themselves than they wish is a bit like a masquerade. But this isn't a masquerade in the negative sense of a sham, I think. The ability to enter a new community free of past associations and preconceptions can actually be tremedously liberating. In some ways, it gives participants the chance to be more themselves than may have been possible for some time. It's possible that among the aforementioned limiting preconceptions (and yes, it has to be said that these have often been accepted rather than imposed) are those that relate to a person's sex. In the context of a Board, even these preconceptions can be avoided - without recourse to elaborate disguises! This may be important to some people. IMHO this has the potential to end up a bit like a Shakespearian comedy (although those are restricted to women playing men I believe), but there's no harm in that. There is, however, a lot of entertainment value in the fundamental mystery, the gradual revelation, and even the odd faux-pas if handled with sensitivity and (above all) a sense of humour! *thunk (n): like a THINK, but deeper
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#8346
10/20/2000 11:15 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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like a Shakespearian comedy
Thanks, I don't mind if I do! But the real magic is to recognise the multi-layered spectacle of the original Elizabethan companies: a boy, playing a female role, who then gets disguised as a man...
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#8347
10/20/2000 11:20 AM
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plagiarize
Don't ever forget the words of a maestro on this subject:
Bad artists copy. Great artists steal.
Picasso
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#8348
10/20/2000 12:08 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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: "Plagiarise, let no one else's work evade your eyes."
I particularly like his instruction, "-- but make sure you call it research!"
BTW, my favourite has to be the delightfully gruesome "Irish Folk Song" (or some such title) - Rikkety-Ticketty-Tin
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#8349
10/20/2000 12:58 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Rikkety-Ticketty-Tin
Ooh! I heard that at the same place I did Cool Water!
Can't recall it exactly just now, but it is hair-raising:
builds up the suspense, and just creeps you out with that
slow, inexorable refrain.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Better to be plagiarized twice than never quoted.
I thought I'd take this opportunity to quote wseiber "Better to be plagiarized twice than never quoted".
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Pooh-Bah
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I enjoy the fact that my real identity is not known to the casual reader. I'd hate someone I worked with to read the board and argue with me in the real world about things I may have said in the virtual world. In some ways it offers a parallel universe where it is possible to behave slightly differently to the way one might be expected to behave in the real world.
I think it would be hard to behave in a way which was completely out of character but we all have the ability to play different roles in different groups.
Part of the adventure in life is to be allowed to take risks. I have considered letting my "character" die, so I can come back as someone else but I think I have been around too long now and it would feel fraudulent. On the other hand ....
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Pooh-Bah
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>Suggestions which might be considered touchy-feely by men.
I have worked with quite a few people in the counselling world and some of the most touchy-feely people I have met have been men!
I've read "Men are from Mars etc..." and can think of lots of instances where both sets of behaviour have been displayed in couples but the roles have been crossed over.
I'd like to think that RhubarbCommando is right and gender doesn't matter ... but then I think would a man have cared about the subject so much to have said that?
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#8353
10/22/2000 11:49 PM
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I thought I'd take this opportunity to quote wseiber "Better to be plagiarized twice than never quoted".
Or to quote jmh: "Better to be plagiarised twice than never quoted".
This has now become research, promising to develop into a fine list of references for my Log.D. dissertation.
lusy logologue (or should that be chuggalug?)
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In reply to:
a boy, playing a female role, who then gets disguised as a man
And if the screenplay of "Shakespeare in Love" had been based around another play we could have had a female pretending to be a male pretending to be a female pretending to be a male. Or did they just think this would make the audience's brains hurt too much?
Bingley
Bingley
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Jo
Wouldn't have you figured for a masquerader here. Do you really think there's that much of a difference between jmh and Jo the Scottish Boudicca (or whatever it is you are in 'real' life)?
I tend to be 'myself' (whatever that may be) on all Boards/e-mails etc. Perhaps I'm not adventurous enough. Or perhaps it would just make me feel like a sneak. I dunno.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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Pooh-Bah
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>Scottish Boudicca
How nice, I'd like to be a Scottish Boudicca. I'll just go and brush up on my scary faces, I'm a bit low on woad. Unfortunately I'm not Scottish, merely English (cf Canadian v United Statesian conversation).
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#8357
10/23/2000 10:13 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Jo suggested several possible romantic pairings
It wasn't necessarily romantic. More like a pair of old gloves, one old hand just isn't enough! Glad to see you've been promoted!
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#8358
10/23/2000 11:50 AM
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addict
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< Plagiarize>
I've just checked the covers of all my Tom Lehrer albums and I think it comes from the song "Lobachevsky" on "Tom Lehrer discovers Australia" [recorded in 1960, and I was at one of his Melbourne concerts where he sang Be prepared which was, at the time, officially banned in Australia if I remember correctly.] It's too late for me to play the album now -- I'll check it out tomorrow -- don't want to annoy the neighbours!!
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merely English merely English indeed! What's wrong with being an English Boudicca? Or indeed the English Boudicca?! Harumph! (that "mad" emoticon keeps reminding me of Thomas the Tank Engine for some reason. The doesn't, though. Wonder why?)
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Lobachevsky
Brilliant. That's enough for me to be going on with, thanks.
Oh yes, I remember "Be Prepared" I think - early anti-nuclear song of sorts wasn't it?
It's amazing; you can't believe what's been banned in the past - even/especially in countries that are now seen as fairly liberal. Times really have changed, and perhaps we should appreciate the fact more.
(famous last words!)
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>>"Be Prepared"
I thought 'Be Prepared' was the Boy Scouts motto.
aside: I never did figure out why they call the fish-man Shona...
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would a man have cared about the subject so much to have said that?Yes! In fact, I think I did, more or less. But am I more fish or bike? You tell me. And then tell me which of those is more Mars and which Venus!
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Carpal Tunnel
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> Glad to see you've been promoted!
thanks... but as I've posted elsewhen regarding titles and counting posts, feh!
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Pooh-Bah
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>merely English indeed!
It's a survival mechanism, maybe a little tongue in cheek. Us ex-pats have to know our place!
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Pooh-Bah
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That's funny - stereo - I thought I'd replied to Rhubarb.
>But am I more fish or bike?
You tell me.
And then tell me which of those is more Mars and which Venus
Fish are obviously Venus and bikes are obviously Mars, even a fool could tell you that!
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#8366
10/23/2000 10:18 PM
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Us ex-pats have to know our place!
Doesn't stop my good friend fighting his corner - and he's an "ex-pat" Scot down here in the sunny South!
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#8367
10/23/2000 10:43 PM
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why they call the fish-man Shona...
You're not the first to ask. Fishonabike.
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I thought I'd replied to Rhubarb
Sorry. I thought it was an open comment, Jo.
Byee
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#8369
10/24/2000 10:44 AM
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<plagiarise>
Yep, it was Lobachevsky.
and, xara, re Be prepared: the liner notes say that the Police Commissioner in Queensland (one of our more forward-looking States) advised Mr Lehrer not to sing the song; however, he did so and the Boy Scout movement continued to thrive.
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Pooh-Bah
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>I thought it was an open comment
No worries, I suppose they all should be open comments.
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enthusiast
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>I thought it was an open comment
No worries, I suppose they all should be open comments.They are. Open to misinterpretation.
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#8372
10/25/2000 10:51 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Oh, Dear! So many things I want to take up - like the man on the way to San Jose, I've been away too long, too long. would a man have cared about the subject so much to have said that?Yes, I know men who care enough to say that - have been there when they've said it. PLenty of men in the Trades Union care a great deal, I have found. (As well as even more who use female rights/equality issues as a platform to boost their male egos!) The Women's Studies course at Lancaster Uni usually has one or two males on it - whjo invariably get a bad time from the militant femininsts on the course, but who care deeply for the cause of equal ops, etc. (end of rant ) Lobachesky Nicholai Ivanovich Lobachesky was his name! Be Prepared was a wickedly funny send up of the Boy Scout movement, full of "advice" to young men starting out and about to "slide down the razor-blade of life." It include the advice, "Don't solicit for your sister, it's notnice/ Unless you get a fair percentage of her price."; "Don't write dirty words on walls if you can't spell,"; and finished with the absolutely invaluable advice to any young man, "If you're looking for adventure of a new and different kind,/ And you find a fellow Girl-Scout who is si ilarly inclined, / Don't bashful, don't be nervous, don't be scared: / BE PREPARED !
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> It is often said that men and women use English in different ways.
Hi Bingley,
You had started the thread with above sentence. I was wondering whether you know anything more about this? I tried to LIU but could not develop a proper search string. Thanks
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Carpal Tunnel
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It is often said that men and women use English in different ways.
Hi Bingley,
You had started the thread with above sentence. I was wondering whether you know anything more about this? I tried to LIU ...
Avy, I can't speak for what Bingley meant, but I thought of an example I once heard, relating to the way we get (or don't get) our expectations across. A wife tells her husband the light bulb above the sink needs to be changed.
He says uh huh, and continues on about his business. These lines are repeated every night for a week, until she finally explodes and says Why in the world haven't you changed that light bulb? And he says, in honest perplexity,
why didn't you ask me to?
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Pooh-Bah
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>I tried to LIU
Hi Avy
I think think the key is "it is often said" ... Any UK or US (I expect) bookshop is full of shelves of books on the subject. Have a browse around Amazon.com or your favourite on-line bookshop and you'll find tomes on the subject.
"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" is looking a bit dog-eared now but has spawned (those fishy words keep coming up!) myriads of sucessors. Add to that a few thousand academic theses and you could be buried in paper for some time.
And the conclusion to all that: "It is often said that men and women use English in different ways".
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Avy
Jo's analysis is excellent, but I'm not sure if I'd be happy to leave you with the notion that Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus is some sort of standard reference text. For really good writing on the difference between male and female communication styles, I'd recommend Deborah Tannen. Her two books That's not what I meant and You just don't understand are brilliantly insightful and informative. The latter focuses solely upon male-female differences, while the former is more general - dealing with all sorts of cultural variations in conversational style. Importantly, neither is full of simplistic analyses, or easy solutions.
She has also, more recently, published a book called The Argument Culture. I haven't read it (yet?), but it may be worth seeking out - almost definitely available on Amazon et al.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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