#82982
10/10/2002 9:34 PM
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You doin' okay there, Dub-Dub? Manassas (and Fredericksburg) getting a little closer to where you are.
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#82983
10/10/2002 11:07 PM
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Hi, Juan...
We've canceled our school picnics, all outdoors. Everything else is running same as usual.
Fredericksburg is about an hour from our school.
And we've had drive-by shootings like just about everybody else at some time or other.
What we're having trouble understanding is the motivation behind this... And we don't want to give into fear. I'm sorry the picnics were canceled.
Doesn't make sense. Any of it. I heard a depressed art teacher say she wants to find another planet. This one's becoming too crazy.
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#82984
10/11/2002 6:46 AM
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Sad to hear about the shootings. Fredericksburg is one of my favouritest places in the US.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#82985
10/11/2002 8:59 AM
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#82986
10/11/2002 10:28 AM
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My wife forgot her keys yesterday morning and I had to drive out to Manassas to open her car. I noticed the yellow tape and police all around the Sunoco, the parking lot of the motel behind it, and the Bob Evans across the street; and people all over the place with cameras and miscellaneous other paraphernalia.
I asked my wife if I couldn't just wait till noon and have lunch with her (I doubt we done it more than once in 15 years of marriage), but she refused - and asked me not to go anywhere in public, except straight back to work. Even though the chances of anyone in particular getting whacked are pretty slim, some people are very concerned in these parts.
k
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#82987
10/11/2002 10:51 AM
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The disbelief and inability to understand brings to my mind the horrific Dunblane massacre (Scotland 1996), which as it happens was in yesterday's news here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2314249.stmTo some extent I've wanted (like, I expect, many people who had a choice) to erase Dunblane from my memory, but I visited the Gun Control Network referenced in the news article: http://www.gun-control-network.org/gcnintro.htmThe GCN was set up in the aftermath of Dunblane, and its founders include many parents of victims. It has campaigned vigorously for tighter gun laws, and for the most part has - I am delighted to say - done quite well in the ongoing struggle against the shooting lobby. The UK now has, as it says on the site: "a complete ban on handguns... and some of the strictest gun laws in the world". I then checked out the detail of the GCN's achievements and found that the Gun Control Network has gone global with IANSA (in case any non-UKers are interested): http://www.iansa.org/...and then I checked out Facts & Research and was left pretty aghast at some of what I found there. Go to http://www.gun-control-network.org/facts.htm and scroll down to Gun Death - International Comparisons. The figures speak for themselves. There's something positive to take from this, though. Simply put: things can be changed if enough people really want the change. And - crucially - it doesn't have to wait for the next election or for a particular political party to be in power. Here endeth the lesson. 
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#82988
10/11/2002 11:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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And there's another Hannibal Lecter film out. What will you?
I've been to Shady Grove near Gaithersburg - is it near Fredericksburg? - when I was there someone was mugged on a lakeside walkway behind the offices and everyone was very shocked. Have things changed or is it an entirely different area?
dxb.
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#82989
10/11/2002 1:46 PM
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Someone was just shot at a gas station on I-95 near Fredericksburg, VA, (Spotsylvania County) and they are currently in pursuit of a white van. Let's hope they get the bastard(s). Much of I-95 is now shut-down. This is #10 in the DC area...let's hope this insanity stops.
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#82990
10/11/2002 2:07 PM
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Please keep us posted, Juan. I'm here at school in class, but will check into this thread between classes.
Thanks,
WW
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#82991
10/11/2002 2:38 PM
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There's also http://www.cnn.com for a quick update, should Juan not be around.
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#82992
10/11/2002 2:41 PM
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WW, the shooter is still at large...all public schools in Spotsylvania County and in the general area are now in lock-down...please be careful. This morning's victim has died. Dear God...
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#82993
10/11/2002 3:18 PM
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We watched CNN during lunch--teachers, that is, with blinds closed so children wouldn't be able to see into the room.
White Chevy van--ladder racks.
Let me tell you. Everybody I know is looking at white vans in a completely different way. One of our teachers has a son traveling south on I-95. She cannot talk without her eyes tearing up.
Three in one week--one day in between each shooting this work week.
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#82994
10/12/2002 3:39 AM
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DXB, Shady Grove and Gaithersburg are in the DC suburbs of Maryland. The latest outrage was in Virginia, a fair piece south of DC.
There doesn't seem any reason so far to be concerned where I am, since we are plenty far to the north of the sniper's operating area (so far), but one of my sons lives in Silver Spring (about a half mile from one of the first shootings) and he and his wife work in Rockville; another son lives in Leesburg, VA, across the river from Rockville. So they, and my 9 month old grandson, are right in the sniper's original territory.
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#82995
10/12/2002 8:35 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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The disbelief and inability to understand brings to my mind the horrific Dunblane massacre (Scotland 1996) ...
Pulling together a few figures from the links that Fishonabike gave:
UK Figures - Handgun homicide figures are very low and since 1980 have fluctuated from a low of 7 in 1988, through to 35 in 1993 and a previous high of 39
in1997. So 42 gun murders in 1999 does not represent a statistically significant increase. Judging by the figures below it would be necessary to add approximately another 85 unintentional deaths to give a total of 127 for 1999
In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day.(Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)
Gun Death - International Comparisons
Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
..................Homicide.........Suicide.......Unintentional
USA---------4.08(1999)-----6.08(1999)-0.42 (1999)
Canada------0.54(1999)-----2.65(1997)-0.15 (1997)
Switzerland---0.50(1999)----5.78(1998)-
Scotland-----0.12(1999)----0.27(1999)-
England/Wales0.12(1999/00)-0.22(1999)-0.01(1999)
Japan--------0.04*(1998)---0.04(1995)-<0.01(1997)
(dates in brackets relate to the most recent figures, sorry about wiggly lines - the edit screen is not WYSIWYG)
Whilst outrangeous behaviour by a crazed individual seems to happen with increasing regularity all over the world now and appears to be virtaully unstoppable, I can only hope that one day the link between gun deaths and gun ownership will be recognised even by responsible gun owners who never use their guns in anger.
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#82996
10/12/2002 9:18 PM
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Jo's post brings to mind the latest effort from Michael Moore, Bowling for Columbine. You can find information about it, including links to interviews with Moore, on his website, http://www.michaelmoore.com/.
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#82997
10/13/2002 12:52 AM
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Bob:
I've been thinking about these shootings. Here's a guess:
There are two shooters, and they are taking turns shooting in some kind of a game. It could be they are each trying to fill a pokre hand, or they are playing a board game of some kind, using the deaths to count coup.
There are two vehicles; the white truck is not where the weapon is, it's the truck in which the observer sits. The death car is a rental car, so it's never seen twice at a murder site. So if the person in the white van gets stopped there's no gun, no scent of cordite, nothing. It's a red herring, in this case white.
The two communicate by using cell phones, and that's where the police are going to catch them, by examining the records of the cells close to the various scenes and finding multiple uses of the cells by the same cell phones.
If this isn't what's going on I've got the plot for a good novel!
TEd
TEd
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#82998
10/13/2002 12:56 AM
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Interesting theory there, Ted.
You might want to augment it a bit. The white Chevy van that was seen on Friday was reported to have had two men in it. Your theory would still work, however. Two men in the van and one with the gun in the rental car.
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#82999
10/13/2002 1:15 PM
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Or the second one in the truck is the referee. Wonder how many driver's licenses they have to keep them from being caught by the excess car rental stats. Another website for Bowling for Columbine: http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/
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#83000
10/13/2002 2:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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Shady Grove and Gaithersburg are in the DC suburbs of Maryland
Thanks Byb. When I looked at the map I realised that I was confusing Fredericksburg with Frederick which is where my collegues work. Sorry for this error.
This is such a sick and sickening piece of work, setting the value of human life at an all time low. No motive, no gain - just opportunity.
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#83001
10/13/2002 3:17 PM
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As I understand it, no deaths from gunshot in Britain this year have been from guns legally owned by anyone except the police. Makes sometbing of a mockery of gun control, wouldn't you say? IF you can smuggle refugees in without let or hindrance, guns are OBVIOUSLY that much easier!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#83002
10/13/2002 3:21 PM
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My mom just read something out loud from the paper regarding the rifle that's used in the shootings:
"The bullet travels 3,000 feet per second."
So that bullet can travel over a mile in two seconds? Good frigging grief.
How many feet away can that rifle be and still be accurate?
Isn't it something like 6,000 feet...well over a mile? I seem to remember reading something like that on CNN. If I'm remembering correctly, heaven help us all. There could easily be a two-vehicle setup like the one Ted suggested--or even more--with the sick goal of picking off citizens, one by one.
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#83003
10/13/2002 7:24 PM
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no deaths from gunshot in Britain this year have been from guns legally owned by anyone except the police. Makes something of a mockery of gun control
Not sure how that follows, Cap. If the only non-police related gunshot deaths are from illegal guns and the death rate from gunshots is significantly lower than in countries with laxer gun control it would seem to me to prove the usefulness of gun control in limiting deaths by gunshot.
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#83004
10/14/2002 12:12 PM
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Thanks. I'll look out for it.
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#83005
10/14/2002 7:14 PM
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WW:
It suddenly occurred to me. These are not random shootings. The victims may be random, but the shootings themselves are part of a plan. The shooter HAD to know there was a state cop 50 yards away investigating an accident. He'd have had flashing lights, a big hat, the whole shtik. Yet the shooter chose someone else. Wouldn't the policeman have been a tempting target?
The victim had something the shooter wanted. A particular number or letter on a license plate, color of shirt, color of car. Something that made him a better target than a cop.
TEd
TEd
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#83006
10/14/2002 7:22 PM
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Yes, TEd...the same thought occurred to me...why not the cop?
And since there seems to be no shootings on weekends or holidays (today, Columbus Day) when most businesses are closed, I think the bastard(s) must be using company vehicles.
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#83007
10/14/2002 7:44 PM
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Sorry, didn't make myself clear. It makes a mockery of gun controls because it is pretty damned easy to get guns illegally. Guns owned legally aren't being used illegally, but there are still dunnamany illicit shooters out there. The gun control laws are basically only applying to people who don't want to use their guns illegally anyway. And, as I said, it would seem a snap to smuggle them into this country.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#83008
10/14/2002 7:46 PM
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Do we know that the police car was in full sight from all angles? I know that exit and have stopped there before off I-95. I think Ted's two-vehicle theory makes a lot of sense. And it would explain better why the policeman had not become a target--the team of killers set up a plan, agree on the plan, one car is used for some kind of sighting and estimates, and the other one is where the rifle is.
There are dozens of theories out there on the internet, by the way, but Ted's is the most interesting I've read so far.
There was a commentary of past graduates of a sniper school in one of the online stories, and these snipers said that the sniper in question couldn't be a topnotch one--even though hitting his targets--because he was shooting from about 100 yards, when, in fact, he should have been shooting from much farther away if he'd been a topnotch sniper. For what it's worth.
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#83009
10/14/2002 7:51 PM
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I know it's popular to say that it's easy to get guns illegally, but do statistics bear this out? If the number of gun related deaths is low where guns are flat illegal and high where they aren't then some other factor would have to be invented to explain it if you are to hold to the theory that gun controls are ineffective. Seems to me.
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#83010
10/14/2002 8:15 PM
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There was a commentary of past graduates of a sniper school in one of the online stories, and these snipers said that the sniper in question couldn't be a topnotch one--even though hitting his targets--because he was shooting from about 100 yards, when, in fact, he should have been shooting from much farther away if he'd been a topnotch sniper. For what it's worth.
Well, WW...all the reports I've heard have been citing the longest range shot in this series as 513 yards...so.
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#83011
10/14/2002 8:31 PM
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Handguns are flat illegal here except under the strictest controls. Yet there're apparently thousands of them in the country. Go figure. The number of illegal guns in circulation here is increasing rapidly every year. The number of people prepared to use them is increasing also, probably at the same rate.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#83012
10/15/2002 1:24 AM
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You-all, parts of this thread are bothering the heck out of me. Partly because this isn't a news-discussion board, and partly due to my personal bias against speculation based on too little information.
Let me emphasize news discussion. When awful things have happened before, we have remarked on them, and expressed concern, and in my opinion that falls into the special-case category of non-language posting. But there is something about this "it could be this, or might be that" business that kind of gets to me.
However, if everybody but me wants to keep on, that's ok; I can always skip it. But I wanted to let you all know my thoughts.
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#83013
10/15/2002 1:44 AM
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Well..I just clicked over to CNN during a commercial in the baseball game and a woman was just shot tonight in a Home Depot parking lot in Falls Church, VA....damn it all...
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#83014
10/15/2002 1:59 AM
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Well, guess I'm through with this thread. 'S'ok.
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#83015
10/15/2002 8:28 AM
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AnnaS's link above (CNN) has a lot of updated information.
I just read all of this this morning, and it has brought me to tears.
I find it very disturbing--among many things here--that all those roadblocks aren't working.
WW
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#83016
10/15/2002 1:05 PM
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I don't know anything about sniper school. But just about everyone in my family is a marksman. The shots are very good for a novice, but pretty trivial for anyone who is really good. My dad and brothers shoot groundhogs at 300 and 400 yards - and dad used to shoot the eyes out of snowshoe hares at 100 yards (no scope). (That's right, one shot in the eye, the other out the back of the head. We ate well in Alaska.)
I don't know what the specifications are on a marine, but I'd be very surprised if any random marine (with no sniper training) couldn't make a 200 - 300 yard shot on a stationary target without a scope.
k
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#83017
10/15/2002 3:15 PM
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The number of illegal guns in circulation here is increasing rapidly every year
It may well be, Cap, but you've got to admit that if guns are practically all illegal it dissuades most people from carrying them around (and hence limits the opportunities for their use). A quick frisk - or even sharp eyes - and you're in big trouble. Only a particular type of person is likely to have a gun in that context, and the majority of us can suss the "type" and avoid their company. It also helps the police identify situations where an armed response may be appropriate.
That's got to help save lives. And does.
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#83018
10/15/2002 3:40 PM
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I think the problem with the way most laws are implemented (at least in the US) is that they tend to dissuade only those people who are already not prone to being criminals, or they artificially make criminals of people who would not otherwise be prone to hurting anyone else.
k
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#83019
10/15/2002 9:01 PM
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I'm with you, Jackie--hadn't even opened this thread until now, seeing as how it's so popular. going to bury my head again...
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#83020
10/16/2002 3:39 PM
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Speculation is futile. Only the law enforcement agencies involved have all pertinent data.
My heart goes out to all those killed, their friends and family. All of you in that area, take care.
An aside: I just received an invitation to the Nov. 11th commemoration ceremonies at the Vietnam veterans Memorial (The Wall) in DC. I wonder if they will continue plans for the ceremony out in open?
Carrying on so as not to give in to terrorism is laudable but there is such a thing as common sense!
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