#82016
09/27/2002 5:07 PM
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I just read a story in the newspaper about some people fleeing arrest who "T-boned" another automobile. I'd seen it before, but it got me to wondering if it's in common use. Also, how about in other parts of world where the main language is English? If I say, We T-boned them but no one was hurt" would you know what I meant?
Also, any other words out there that are nouns or adjectives that have been verbed with a pretty much entirely different meaning from the original word?
TEd
TEd
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#82017
09/27/2002 5:11 PM
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I wouldn't bet my rump on it, but I think I can figure out the meaning from the expression. Never heard it before.
edit: I just read Faldage's response. He's right. I wouldn't have a clue what it meant without the car context.
Good general question; should generate lots of responses!
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#82018
09/27/2002 5:12 PM
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I'd think I'd need a little more context than just, "we t-boned them, but nobody was hurt". Hard to say given I had the fuller context of the original.
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#82019
09/27/2002 6:27 PM
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Mercy yes, I'd know--it's in very common use, here. Interesting, though, that the expression for striking another vehicle broadside does not refer to the steak of the same sobriquet (er, can that expression apply to an object?), but to the shape created by the collision.
It would be more logical, wouldn't it, for the driver to say, "I T'd the other guy"?
There's another expression for driving, called 'threading the needle': when you are in the middle lane between at least two others, and pass ahead of two vehicles, one on either side of you. Is this what is also known as slingshoting?
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#82020
09/27/2002 7:11 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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I would recognize immediately what the speaker meant. To "T-bone" another auto is to strike it at a 90 degree angle, i.e. broadside, such as when a person runs a red light and hits a car going through the intersection. BTW this is often fatal for the person in the car that is struck if enough speed is involved, as a result of injuries to the neck and brain.
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#82021
09/27/2002 7:51 PM
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To "T-bone" another
An analogous expression from naval warfare was described in Michener's Space (and other places, I'm sure): "crossing the enemy's T." It means taking your ships in a straight line perpendicular to and in front of your foe's line of ships, so that you can fire all your guns at the same time converging on the enemy ships, while their return fire has to be spread out and thus attenuated...
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#82022
09/27/2002 8:37 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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>when you are in the middle lane between at least two others, and pass ahead of two vehicles, one on either side of you. Is this what is also known as slingshoting?
Here it is known as illegal. We don't have freeways, the slowest traffic is in the left hand lane and the right hand lane is for overtaking only, so of course .. it just doesn't happen ...
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#82023
09/27/2002 8:45 PM
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Seems there's a racing expression: A driver is sandbagging.
I think that means that a driver in qualifying laps or maybe early in a long race doesn't show his true stuff. Then later in the race, he turns it on...shows his real power. People say he was sandbagging during qualifying or maybe during the early laps.
Please correct me if I've gotten this all wrong.
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#82024
09/27/2002 9:23 PM
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sandbagging is widely used in sports where it may be advantageous to hide your true skills until an appropriate moment, such as when a wager has been raised -- I've heard it used in bowling and golf and billiards. the betting aspect is actually a clue to its gaming origin, which is poker:
The specific "hang back" or "slack off" sense of "sandbag" you're wondering about comes from poker, where it originally described a player who held off raising the stakes in order to lull the other players into a false sense of security. The poker sandbagger would pounce late in the game, clobbering the other players with his good hand. More generally, "sandbag" has come to mean to under perform any task in order to gain some advantage.
-The Word Detective
the reference to "clobbering" gets at the ultimate origin, which is the use of a sock filled with sand to strike someone, the object of this being to inflict pain without leaving a mark.
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#82025
09/27/2002 9:32 PM
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slingshotting - Passing a car by first drafting to conserve power, then suddenly moving out of the slipstream and using the reserve power. [Auto Racing Glossary]
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#82026
09/27/2002 10:37 PM
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Thanks for the explanation, tsuwm, about sandbagging.
In my usual ignorance about all things related to all sports, I had thought maybe sandbagging meant (get ready to roll your eyes) that the car in question appeared to be running slowly because sandbags had been attached to it. Then voila! Suddenly the car speeds ahead and you realize the driver was sandbagging--driving as though weighted down with sandbags.
Very nice to know the truth of the situation now.
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#82027
09/27/2002 10:39 PM
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And since we're talking cars here, I always liked it when the race announcers said a car was getting squirrely--or zigzagging suddenly on the track.
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#82028
09/27/2002 11:10 PM
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Thanks, tsuwm, for the explanation about slingshotting. (I knew I should double the t, but wondered if our non-native speakers of English would know what I meant if I did.) I was thinking it was different from threading the needle. Now, Jo, I've had a good lesson in British road systems, such as, that for your-all's biggest roads, the M stands for motorway. None of your motorways have more than two lanes in one direction?
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#82029
09/27/2002 11:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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since we're talking cars here
In racing, T-boning often occurs when a driver loses it "in the marbles" but, as often as not, the base of the "T" is a wall, not another vehicle.
"In the marbles" is the area of the track near the top of the high oval where bits of distressed tires, having the appearance of marbles, tend to accumulate to the peril of drivers entering this zone. As you might expect, it is hard to maintain control when you are skidding on rubber beads.
[Come to think of it, truck drivers worry about ending up "in the rhubarb" when they fall asleep at the wheel ... but that is certainly better than being T-boned.]
When we lose control of our mental faculties, people say we have "lost our marbles". Obviously, this has nothing to do with car racing. Where does this expression come from - losing one's marbles - I wonder?
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#82030
09/27/2002 11:31 PM
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I googled till I felt I was losing my own marbles, and all I could find indicated that the expression came from the game of playing marbles. To lose one's marbles was a terrible thing. There was one site that traced the game of playing games of marbles to the Ice Age (when was that exactly?)...
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#82031
09/28/2002 12:50 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
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old hand
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old hand
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M stands for motorwayHey Jackie, hope you don't mind my answering your question (hope Jo doesn't mind either!) - but I just got back from a trip to the UK so can assure you, the motorways there are like our freeways here - double and sometimes triple lanes in each direction. But Jo is right - the outer lane (in their case, the right-most, in ours, the left-most) is used strictly for passing. (Let me tell you, I was well impressed - here in Canada, at least the bits of it I drive, people are bluddy rude about hanging about in the fast lane instead of passing and getting out of the way.) What they (across the pond) call an "A road" is a single carriageway. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not so sure we use the term "freeway" in Canada - just "highway." More frequently, "401" (our principal cross-country route), as in: "I took the 401 to Brockville today." Our major motorways all seem to start with the number 4 - makes sense that the 401 is the 401, since it's the first and longest (it's aka the trans-Canada highway). If you go on a smaller road, you generally refer to it by number or, if it doesn't have one (rare), by name: "I prefer to take Highway 2 and then the Parkway if I'm going to Brockville. If I'm going to Ottawa, I'll take Highway 15, then the 417." I'm sure y'all were just scintillated by this!  (bet you're wishing Jo had got in with an answer before me!) If you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side.
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#82032
09/28/2002 1:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
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old hand
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I'm not so sure we use the term "freeway" in Canada - just "highway."
Though I'm familiar with both terms, I don't think I'd use either unless referring to one in the general sense. I would more specifically say "I took 71 to Columbus" or "275 (the humungous Cinci interstate loop) into Kentucky." And this marks a regional difference that I'm sure we've discussed before, I would never say the 275. Though it deserves a distinguishing article, being so big. (From what I can tell, it's the largest continuous metropolitan freeway loop in the nation.) as if you care . . .
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#82033
09/28/2002 10:42 AM
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The specific "hang back" or "slack off" sense of "sandbag" ... comes from poker
Well, OK. It comes from poker. This would be because the player hides behind a pile of sandbags whilst doing it? This would seem to be the very sort of dead giveaway that having a poker face is supposed to hide. Or is sandbagging used metaphorically to describe the act of clobbering the opponent, as though with a sandbag, when the mask of poor playing is stripped away? And if so, why isn't sandbagging used to refer to the process of playing up to capabilities in the latter phase rather than playing under them in the earlier? Inquiring nitpickers need to know.
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#82035
09/28/2002 1:45 PM
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a nitpicker inquires/enquires: why isn't sandbagging used to refer to the process of playing up to capabilities in the latter phase rather than playing under them in the earlier?
Am I to understand that you don't play poker then? Sandbagging in poker is: not playing up to the capabilities of your hand! Let's suppose that you're playing 7-card stud, in which you receive your first three cards en masse, two face down and 1 up, and then the betting ensues. Let's further suppose that your three cards are Kings (don't want to get too carried away here). You certainly wouldn't want to lose your poker face here by showing your true excitement, but you also (usually) wouldn't want to bet your hand to its full worth by raising the limit, as everyone with Q-10-6 will immediately drop out, thus robbing you of some of your just rewards. So you sandbag, merely matching someone else's bet (there's probably an Ace showing) or making some minimal bet whilst opining, "Hey, are we here to play poker or just to drink beer?!"
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#82036
09/28/2002 3:59 PM
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not playing up to the capabilities of your hand!
Yeah, so I still don't understand what sandbags got to do with it. You're pretending that, rather than two kings in the hole those thangs are actively sandbags, beatable by a deuce high kangaroo straight?
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#82037
09/28/2002 4:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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Actually, ModGod had it partly right.
A motorway (the M1, M5, M6, etc.) is usually three lanes (triple carriageway) although some motorways, e.g. the M11 and the northern half of the M42, are only dual carriageway (i.e., two lanes each way). Motorway rules in Britain are pretty much the same as freeway/interstate rules in the States. The speed limit isn't really enforced on most of the motorways and people tend to travel on them at between 70 and 100 mph. If you're caught doing the ton, however, it's instance loss-of-licence territory. As Jo implied, you are not supposed to travel faster than the traffic in the lane to your right, i.e. no undertaking in the left-hand lanes. Yeah, right.
Then you get the "A" roads which have motorway regulations, for instance the A1M. Confused? You betcha.
"A" roads can be single carriageway or dual carriageway and even triple carriageway in some cases. I use the A14 from Kettering to the M1 every morning, which is dual carriageway. I use the A509 to get from Wellybro to the A14 at Kettering, and it's single carriageway (and a bastard of a road due to the fact that there are a lot of people using it who believe that the speed limit is between 30 mph and 40 mph rather than 60 mph ... I do wish I had James Bond's Aston Martin sometimes, I really do.
"B" roads are everything that aren't "A" roads or motorways. Some are not bad, but some are "Z" roads in my book - really bad. Brits are pretty bad drivers on the whole and travel on narrow country lanes as if they owned the road. I don't know how many times I've had to react quickly to avoid some twat in a Jag doing 80mph on a sunken lane or hedged lane with absolutely nowhere to go.
The Brits talk about the M1 or the A14. If you said "I take A14 to M1", you'd get some pretty strange looks ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#82039
09/28/2002 9:31 PM
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what sandbags got to do with it
Aha! I was right! Sandbagging should refer to the act of performing up to capabilities not the act of laying back in preparation.
Thank you for finally answering the question.
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#82040
09/28/2002 9:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
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Now, folks. Time to head to dreamland for a little station break.
Maestro?
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream (bung, bung, bung, bung)
Make him the cutest that I’ve ever seen (bung, bung, bung, bung)
Give him two lips like roses and clover (bung, bung, bung, bung)
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over.
Sandman, I’m so alone
Don’t have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream.
(scat "bung, bung, bung, bung".)
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I’ve ever seen
Give him the word that I’m not a rover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over.
Sandman, I’m so alone
Don’t have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream.
(scat "bung, bung, bung, bung")
Mr. Sandman (male voice: "Yesss?") bring us a dream
Give him a pair of eyes with a "come-hither" gleam
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr Sandman, someone to hold (someone to hold)
Would be so peachy before we’re too old
So please turn on your magic beam
Mr Sandman, bring us, please, please, please
Mr Sandman, bring us a dream.
(scat "bung, bung, bung, bung".)
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#82041
09/29/2002 10:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Pooh-Bah
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> motorway (the M1, M5, M6, etc.) is usually three lanes (triple carriageway)
ahem ... and sometimes four lanes in each direction.. but that is the M25, more often used as a large car park for London.
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#82042
09/30/2002 12:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Sorry, Jo, forgot to mention the M25. Largest parking lot in Europe. It's the exception to every rule ... lots of motorways are four-lane for short distances. Only on the M25 does each lane have carspace markings for rush hour parking ... 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#82043
09/30/2002 1:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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Also on some stretches of the M25, such as Reigate Hill just clockwise of Junction 7, the practice of undertaking, which has an ominous ring to it I always think, is more common than on any other road in the UK.
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#82044
09/30/2002 2:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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I feel I need to clarify some of mg's statements about the Trans Canada Highway. Having driven the 7000+ km from one end of the country to the other on the Trans Canada Highway (with a cat in the back seat for the better part of it) I feel I know a little more of it than just "the 401" (which refers to the southern-Ontario section of the highway.
The Trans Canada Highway takes many numbers/names throughout its length, first of all. From the Victoria to the Ontario border it's labelled (and known as) Highway #1. Once you get into Ontario it's Highway 17. You wouldn't drive down to Toronto if you actually wanted to get anywhere in a sensible amount of time - it's actually quite a detour to go that far south. The sensible route goes Sault Ste. Marie - Ottawa - Montreal and onward. I don't remember the designation in Quebec and the Maritimes but it has no number at all here in Newfoundland! It's just called "the TCH".
Anyway, name or no name, it's not as great as it sounds. Substantial portions of it are a single lane in each direction, no median between the lanes. The traffic is very heavy, since it is the main route across the country, and you're often trapped in heavy traffic behind semi-trailers limited to 90 km/h, waiting for the slightest opportunity to pass. Through the Rockies the driving is both scary and breathtaking at the same time. There are still about 400-500 km of undivided highway in Saskatchewan/Manitoba, and a whole bunch of the section in Ontario is undivided. Quebecers drive like maniacs on their (thankfully divided and well-maintained) portion of the highway. Portions of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are still two-lane, undivided, and the better part of the 1000 km of Newfoundland Trans-Canada highway is also two-lane, undivided. And in Newfoundland there's the added bonus of having to watch out for the island's 200,000 moose, lest one should take the roof of your car (and your head) off by wandering out onto the road at the wrong time.
You really can't appreciate the astounding size of this country unless you've driven it end-to-end. It's ridiculous.
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#82045
09/30/2002 2:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Pooh-Bah
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Jackie says: Interesting, though, that the expression for striking another vehicle broadside does not refer to the steak of the same sobriquet (er, can that expression apply to an object?), but to the shape created by the collision.
So why is a T-bone steak so called then? We don't seem to have them in the UK (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and I don't recall eating one over in the US of A either, so I don't think I have ever actually seen one.
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#82046
09/30/2002 2:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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the expression for striking another vehicle broadside does not refer to the steak of the same sobriquetwhy is a T-bone steak so called then?I was a little baffled by that comment, too. I was reminded of the famous (although probably apochryphal) student paper statement about The Iliad not having been composed by Homer but by someone else with the same name. A t-bone steak is so named because it has a T shaped bone in it. http://www.mailameal.com/jpgs/kitchen5/43.jpg
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#82047
09/30/2002 2:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Thanks for the description of the TCH, Bean. It doesn't sound like a drive you would make for fun - maybe as a challenge! You used an expression I have heard before but not understood; here's my chance to find out. What is a semi-trailer, please?
dxb.
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#82048
09/30/2002 2:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Thanks for the picture, Faldage. Big aren't they. Sort of beef chops.
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#82049
09/30/2002 2:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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(non-meat-eaters, DON'T CLICK)If you look carefully at this picture, dxb, you'll be able to make out the T-shaped bone (jmh knows a lot about cross-pondial beef cuts, I hope she'll chime in): http://food.orst.edu/images/MEAT/tbone72.jpg
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#82050
09/30/2002 2:37 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I know I shouldn't dilly-dally when Faldage is on the loose. Oh, well, dxb, now you have two pictures! 
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#82051
09/30/2002 2:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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#82052
09/30/2002 2:53 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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The specific "hang back" or "slack off" sense of "sandbag" you're wondering about comes
from poker, where it originally described a player who held off raising the stakes in order
to lull the other players into a false sense of security. The poker sandbagger would
pounce late in the game, clobbering the other players with his good hand. More
generally, "sandbag" has come to mean to under perform any task in order to gain some
advantage. -The Word Detective
the reference to "clobbering" gets at the ultimate origin, which is the use of a sock filled with sand to strike someone, the object of this being to inflict pain without leaving a mark.
>Aha! I was right! Sandbagging should refer to the act of performing up to capabilities not the act of laying back in preparation.
was anyone else as nonplussed by this sequence as I was? if not, I will consider myself sandbagged and cash in my chips.
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#82053
09/30/2002 3:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Well, if sandbagging refers to the clobbering with a sock filled with sand, this would be analogous to the final phase of the procedure and not to the preliminary phase of allaying suspicions. In actual use I have always interpreted the phrase to mean the laying back in the early stages; the racer who barely qualifies and then blows everybody away in the race itself is said to have been sandbagging in the prelims.
I was nonplussed by the assertion that the phrase originated in poker; I was not and am still not aware of socks filled with sand being standard equipment in poker games. Perhaps I've never played with sufficiently serious players; my poker experience is not extensive.
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#82054
09/30/2002 3:13 PM
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Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Its all too confusing. I conclude that sandbagging is hitting a racing driver with a poker after coming up on him/her from behind whilst pretending to be in front. But it would be quite a stretch from one car to another. Maybe you have to use a long poker.
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#82055
09/30/2002 3:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
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What is a semi-trailer, please?dxb, it's a big truck (lorry?) used to transport big shipments of goods over long distances. Here's a pic: http://www.man.de/unternehmen/bag_nutz1_e.html. The defining quality of a semi-trailer is that the front part (the rig) can be connected to whatever sort of trailer it needs to haul whatever it is hauling. We may have broached on this before. So what do you call the thing in the picture? A USn term is "tractor trailer" I believe.
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