#8155
10/16/2000 10:28 AM
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stranger
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stranger
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Hi -
A number of my regular news sources have used
the word 'wonk' recently, mostly in reference to Al Gore.
The context suggests this is a mildly disparaging comment
on a generally bookish approach towards issues. Where
did this word come from? In high school I was, by
default, a collector of similar epithets and never
was called, er. I mean, ran across this one.
N
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Carpal Tunnel
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TEd
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a wonk is a person who works or studies too much; usually heard in the phrase "policy wonk" ( a wonk is a close relative of the nerd).
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addict
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According to my father's memory of his childhood (admitteldy a not altogether reliable oral history, but in this instance I at least am not making up stories!) a wonk is a small furry toy closely related to the more common gonk.
ON a separate note, in British English at least, 'wonky' means 'not straight' or 'not the way it should be'.
I am finding it hard to relate either of these pieces of lore to tsuwm's definition.
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#8159
10/18/2000 10:27 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Warm welcome to you, Kmeson, as a fellow devotee to peculiar words.
tsuwm says, a wonk is a person who works or studies too much; I am wondering if "twonk" - a derogatory epithet that I have heard once or twice in UK - has any relationship to this word?
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old hand
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old hand
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... And what does bonk mean?
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Carpal Tunnel
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In comic strips BONK is the sound of somebody getting hit in the head.
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Carpal Tunnel
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It is also, in the UK at least, I don't know about other parts of the world, a slang term for having sex.
Bingley
Bingley
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The British English adjective "wonky" means unstable or wobbly. Probably no connection. The Australian noun "wanker" means one who masturbates, from the verb "to wank." Probably no connection. An older British usage of "wonk" referred to a recruit seaman who was unreliable in that he had not yet acquired knowledge or skill. Probably no connection, save that both usages are derisive. The earliest American usage probably meant bookish or studious. OED says its been around since 1962. Webster claims a use in 1954. The term evolved to mean someone with remarkable expertise in a very narrow field. Erich Segal used it in "Love Story" in 1970, to wit: "Who could Jenny be talking to that was worth appropriating moments set aside for a date with me? Some musical wonk?". I think it has lost nuance and come to mean "nerd."
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#8164
10/19/2000 10:28 AM
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"twonk" - a derogatory epithet that I have heard once or twice in UK
Interesting; I'd thought twonk a fairly local, little-used epithet, RC. Definitely a favourite of mine, often self-attributed in moments of frustration!
Used pretty much as "git" (the UK noun rather than the US verb), with roughly the same degree of offensiveness. Maybe there's a dash of "twit" in there too.
Seems to me that, like wonk, twonk can be applied to people with pretensions who try to make a big impression and fail abysmally - probably because they are trying too hard.
Derogatory terms, of course, are notorious for escaping their original definitions!
I think the value of favourite derogatory terms is in their sound rather than meaning as such. The flip side of "phonaesthetics" perhaps?
(anyone interested see the "antonym for onomatopoeia" thread for Bingley's reference to phonaesthetics)
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#8165
10/19/2000 10:44 AM
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The Australian noun "wanker"
Is "wanker" exclusively Australian in origin then, FS?
Cor blimey, stone the crows, guv. I'd never have credited it!
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#8166
10/19/2000 10:47 AM
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In comic strips BONK is the sound of somebody getting hit in the head.
..though it can be THUNK, depending on the head's contents.
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#8167
10/19/2000 11:04 AM
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.wonk tno'd ITEd, You may have just (with a resounding BONK) hit the nail on the head here! Could wonk have been produced in a word inversion game, with a particularly amusing sound as the result? The same may apply to bonk at that.. 
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Carpal Tunnel
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I believe both "to wank" and "wanker" to be of Australian origin but experience tells me that the use of these terms us not at all confined to those Down Under.
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Pooh-Bah
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Used pretty much as "git" (the UK noun rather than the US verb), with roughly the same degree of offensiveness. Maybe there's a dash of "twit" in there too.
Yes, shona, that is much the feeling I got from the contexts in which the term has been used in my hearing. A mixture, I thought of "twit" and "wanker," perhaps?
Incidentally, the term "wank" has been current over here (UK) for quite a long time - I certainly remember using it at school in the '50s - in its masturbatory sense, rather than "wanker" as an epithet; that usage appeared (so far as I'm concerned) in the '60s.
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experience tells me that the use of these terms us not at all confined to those Down Under
You ain't kidding!
What on earth did us Brits use before we knicked the Aussie phrase I wonder?!
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A mixture, I thought of "twit" and "wanker," perhaps?
That's very close Rhub - just a tad more "twit" perhaps.
I must get myself a slang dictionary (or find one online, better yet).
Any recommendations, anyone?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hard-copy dictionaries of slang are as useless as a jock strap in a nunnery, in that they are out-of-date before the glue dries on the binding. The only sensible solution is an on-line slang dictionary but this area has not achieved sufficient respectability to entice a university department to undertake the task.
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Carpal Tunnel
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>this area has not achieved sufficient respectability to entice a university department to undertake the task. oh? check this out: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jasanders/slang/project.html
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The website to which tsuwm refers is outstanding. I just spent half an hour rooting around in it and didn't discover all it has to offer. Thanks, chum!
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#8175
10/21/2000 10:33 AM
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addict
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< out-of-date before the glue dries on the binding >
I take it, Father dear, that you are referring here to the book rather than the jock strap!
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#8176
10/22/2000 12:04 AM
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The practice of using glue to secure one's jock strap is also of Australian provenance, I believe.
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member
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The practice of using glue ...
Nah, we usually nail 'em on.
lusy
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#8178
10/22/2000 10:25 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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The practice of using glue ...
Nah, we usually nail 'em on.
Whoa! Kind of gives a whole new meaning to a couple of sayings:
That's hitting the nail on the head; and,
He's in his cups; and even---Screw 'em!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Jackie!! what is this; if you can't lick 'em, join 'em?!  
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Carpal Tunnel
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tsk, tsk, tsk Gutter talk if I've ever read it (which I haven't, not that there is anything wrong with that ) As to glue in the jockstrap, I have but one word to say to that OW!
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#8181
10/23/2000 12:02 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Jackie!! what is this; if you can't lick 'em, join 'em?!Hey! Have you been spying on me???
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old hand
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old hand
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I'd have thought the fuzzy velcro bits would be sufficient...?
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#8183
10/23/2000 10:01 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>if you can't lick 'em
As we don't usually use the word lick to mean win, I'm missing at least half of the double entendre here!
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#8184
10/23/2000 10:05 AM
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Carpal Tunnel
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I'm missing at least half of the double entendre hereSez you! But I'm sure some will appreciate the cue!
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#8185
10/23/2000 10:52 AM
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Ta were-daddy, just the job!
"Dictionary of Mountain Bike Slang" - love it.
Now I just need an ichthythesaurus.
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#8186
10/23/2000 11:15 AM
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the term "wank" has been current over here (UK) for quite a long time - I certainly remember using it at school in the '50sYes, Rhub, this is why I have a little trouble accepting the word as a recent Australian import (although how recent is obviously a moot point). You can't imagine kids - or most adults, at that - talking about "masturbating". Maybe no-one in the UK talked about masturbation at all before "wank" was imported, although I find that hard to credit. Ahem, for want of a better expression. 
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#8187
10/23/2000 12:21 PM
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old hand
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old hand
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Shona In reply to:
Maybe no-one in the UK talked about masturbation at all before "wank" was imported, although I find that hard to credit.
I'm reasonably certain that, at public schools, 'beastliness' was code for buggery (to use the plain old Anglo-Saxon - or was it?). Perhaps the term was more inclusive and also covered the sin of Onan (though as anybody will tell you, apparently Onan was punished merely for spilling it in excitement, not literally for the sin of the handman).
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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#8188
10/23/2000 12:48 PM
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old hand
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>I'm missing at least half of the double entendre here! < Now, now, if you really had missed that half, you would have missed it alltogether . That's in the nature of double entendre..
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Carpal Tunnel
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(though as anybody will tell you, apparently Onan was punished merely for spilling it in excitement, not literally for the sin of the handman).
As much as I admire the phrase "the sin of the handman" I have always thought that Onan did not "spill it in excitement", but spilt it deliberately in a refusal to perform levirate marriage. As I understood it, that was what got him in trouble.
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beastliness was code for buggeryDidn't know that, shanks. Suppose I could have guessed. As you say, "beastliness" may indeed have covered a multitude of uh, sins. But wouldn't masturbation have had a category all of its own? Buggery is an entirely different ball-game, after all. Maybe we shall never know. Incidentally, "ball-game" reminded me of that wonderful expression "pocket billiards"!
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Carpal Tunnel
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<Pocket pool> on this side of the pond.
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
buggery (to use the plain old Anglo-Saxon - or was it?
The word buggery ultimately comes from Bulgar; apparently Bulgars were well-known for it in Mediaeval times. What the Anglo-Saxons called it I don't know.
From reading the Biblical account of Onan (Genesis 38:9 http://inthebeginning.net/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm ) it sounds to me more like coitus interruptus as a form of contraception.
Bingley
Bingley
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more like coitus interruptus as a form of contraception.
I agree. Neat link--I sent it to all 3 pastors I know.
And, heads up, Father Steve! (Though you probably know this about one already.)
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more like coitus interruptus as a form of contraception
Appropriately enough, this member agrees with the old hand.
I'm struck once again by the vast difference (even total opposition) between the portrayal of God in the Old Testament and the New. In the former the message appears to be: "I have my Reasons, but you couldn't possibly understand them. Do as I say or you and all you cherish will suffer, probably terminally".
In the latter it's more "You'll have to take this on trust. Believe you me it's worth the sacrifice. I love you and I could never hurt you".
I suppose it's all about the time the books were written, and the needs of the intended audience.
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