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#81441 09/22/02 07:54 PM
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In church this morning, the banns were published for a couple who are to be married in October. We got talking about it afterwards at breakfast and my mother said that in her day, the woman was referred to as the "spinster" of such-and-such a parish, and the man as the "bachelor" of such-and-such a parish.

What I want to know is, howcome men get to be "bachelors" instead of, like, you know, "millers" or "masons" or something, and women are defined as "spinsters"? How did both those words originate to describe single members of the sexes?

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

#81442 09/22/02 08:07 PM
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in pre industrial days, it took a dozen spinners to keep 1 weaver employed. and other yarn was spun for mending, and knitting..

spinning is not so demanding that it can't be done as a simple household chore, and young girls could spin, and so earn a small dowery for them selves.. but once they had families, it was hard to find the time to spin...
only unmarried women continued to spin past the age of 20 or so.. so many woman were spinsters till they married, and most married by age 20 or so.

spinning was one of the few occupations a woman could engage in, and still keep her reputation.


#81443 09/22/02 08:59 PM
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thanks of troy - but what about "bachelor" - and why are the two terms so different? my Canadian Oxford gives the historical meaning of "bachelor" as "a young knight serving under another's banner" - so does this mean once he turns to husbandry (agriculture), he's settled down and married? And why is a spinster a "woman, especially an older one, thought unlikely to marry" when a bachelor is just "an unmarried man" - no reference to age and no apparent stigma?

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

#81444 09/22/02 09:33 PM
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Dear MG: the early use of bachelor referred to a young man. Few young men could afford
tp get married. Spinster wasn't intended as a put-down, and only became one when applied
to an old maid. Today we have bachelors and bitchelors. (coined by a female)
I have been told that it was only about a hundred years ago that Massachusetts law
requiring all children to be taught to spin was taken off the books. I knew a woman from
rural MA whose family had made all their own fabric and garments. Locally called swamp Yankees.
They chose independence at the price of a low standard of living. As of troy pointed out it
took quite a few spinners to keep one weaver busy.


#81445 09/22/02 09:49 PM
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Before the invention of the spindle, did people spin and, if so, how was it done?

And something else. Cotton is cotton. Least I think it is. why are Egyptian cotton sheets so terribly expensive--exspinsive?

I'll bet you dollars to donuts of troy knows!


#81446 09/22/02 10:07 PM
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cotton is one of a few plant that were domesticated in both the new world and the old world.. and there is cotton and there is cotton. some cottons have longer thinner fibers. some are short. long thin fibers spin up into thinner stronger thread, and my egyptian cotton sheets are 250 count. that is, in one square inch of fabric, 125 threads going one way, 125 threads crossing.. (they feel like satin they are so smooth!)

sea isle cotton is another wonderful cotton, a hybrid of new world cotton and egyptian, it grows along the coast of the carolina's, (is was first developed on sea isle) and it ranks with egyptian cotton as some of the finest in the world.

now days, they are developing cottons with color. cotton is naturaly close to white, but not quite. some cottons are whiter. but with the use of hybrids, cotton is being grown in heathery shades of green, red, tan and blue...
(what do i mean by heather... soft.. washed out blue jeans could be called a heather blue.)

colored cotton keeps it color --it not a dye that can wash out or fade, its better for the environment(no harsh chemical run off from dying process. )

and before spinning wheels, spindles were free. the sort of looked like a wooden top (the child's toy) a dowel, about 12 to 15 long, with a crochet like hook at one end, and a wooden disk on one end. (i first said lower end but the site showed two examples, lower and upper, and upper was more common.)

you spun the spindle by hand, and spun as you walked(tending sheep or what not--remember for many thousand of years, humans where migrants.)

it is much harder to get a uniform thread done this way. but if you keep pretty still, you can do quite fine.
i look and see if i can find a picture of hand spindle.

here are some beautiful hand spindles. it enough to make you want to go out and get some wool!
http://www.paradisefibers.com/spindles/index.asp



#81447 09/22/02 10:15 PM
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Thanks, of troy. Nice image of a spinning top with some shepherdess sitting by a flock...doing two jobs at once.

If you get a chance to answer this one, too: Was the spinning top spinner the same one that was used in spinning flax, too? Or did modifications have to be made.


#81448 09/22/02 11:53 PM
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Holy Toledo! the prices on those spindles were outrageous. Any woman clever enough to spin
yarn with one of them could build one herself significant cash, about a tenth of cost of a
spinning wheel, which will work much faster and better than aimple whorl. But even with a
spinning wheel, it will be a long time before you have yarn enough to weave enough fabric
for doll clothes. My wife did a considerable amount of spinning, but never got to weave any
of it. And she didn't do any knitting. Take my advice, and don't get involved.


#81449 09/23/02 01:19 AM
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Along with spinster, another term that comes to mind is distaff, as in "the distaff side."
http://www.smith.edu/hsc/museum/ancient_inventions/distaff2.html

Also, isn't there a subtle difference between bachelor and confirmed bachelor?


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'Tis all very interesting and I liked the hand-spindle website - there is worlds and worlds out there (or whorls and whorls...?).

but but but: WHY "spinster" and "bachelor"? an odd pairing, doesn't anyone else think so? Why are single members of one sex referred to by trade, and single members of t'other sex, not? is what I'se getting at. Any thoughts, anyone?

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

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