#79001
08/26/2002 7:29 PM
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stranger
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Hello! I've been arguing with a friend for a week now about whether or not there is an acceptable adjectival form of the word "integrity" that uses the same root. (For example, he insists that "integritous" is a word.) I've done quite a bit of research, but I haven't found anything particularly relevant. Can anyone help?!
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#79002
08/26/2002 8:32 PM
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I'd say that context would determine what kind of adjective you might want for integrity. As an off-the-top-of-my-head definition, let's say integrity is a state of unity in which elements share a common denominator. Say architecture in Colonial Williamsburg here in Virginia. The restoration project includes preserving the integrity of the area as much as possible.
We could say that the well-integrated architecture of Colonial Williamsonburg serves as a fine example of successful restoration. I think I've heard the phrase "well-integrated" functioning as an adjective a lot.
Now when we speak of a person's possessing integrity, that's something a bit different. I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "well-integrated" applied to a person. Perhaps to a person's work, but not to a person possessing integrity.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to read whatever the rest of the word hounds write here.
Best regards,
WW
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#79003
08/26/2002 8:55 PM
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Hi Lori, and welcome the the madhouse.
Good question, too. Can you give us a f'rinstance of the context in which you're thinking of using adjectival integrity?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#79004
08/26/2002 9:09 PM
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For describing someone with personal integrity, adjectives such as loyal, trustworthy, incorruptible come to mind
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#79005
08/26/2002 9:32 PM
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Here is a usage from UK:
"1999 UK legal opinion here, and
scandalous lack of integritous government outlined here?)"
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#79006
08/26/2002 9:35 PM
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I just checked the dictionary listing in OneLook.com and there were no entries for "integritous."
I don't have access to the OED. Maybe tsuwm can check it. I'll be surprised if integritous is a listing, but you never know...
As far as finding an adjective that has some root form of integrity that you asked about, well-integrated is the only form I can think of.
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#79007
08/26/2002 10:26 PM
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before I look up integritous, let me just opine that it's just hokey enough to have been used in C. 17 or 18 -- you know, one of those inkhorn terms. :)
---
well, the inkhorners seem to have gone in a slightly different direction:
integrious [a.] - Obs. rare. Marked by integrity. Hence †in"tegriously adv.
1658 Sir H. Slingsby Diary (1836) 201 Such was their integrious candor and intimacy to me in my greatest extremes. Ibid. 208 Being so integriously grounded, as it admitted no alloy or mixture with By-respects or self-interests.
integritive [a.] - Obs. rare. Marked by integrity; upright, sincere.
1784 Burns Comm.-pl. Bk. Aug., To maintain an integritive conduct towards our fellow-creatures.
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#79008
08/27/2002 12:02 AM
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I like integritive. I think we should integritively reinstitute it. That would be:
Integritive reinstitution
Let the i's have it!
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#79009
08/27/2002 4:51 AM
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old hand
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For describing someone with personal integrity, adjectives such as loyal, trustworthy, incorruptible come to mind.
This example clearly demonstrates that adjectives tell us more than fluffy nouns on -ity. Since integrity is a typical "propaganda word", no wonder it has no corresponding adjective.
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#79010
08/27/2002 11:20 AM
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Welcome aBoard, Lori.  I have not heard of integritous; to me it ranks right down there with such forced terms as architecting. However, language does constantly change, doesn't it? I reminded myself just this morning of that fact, when I wrote to a friend about kids liking "burgers and fries". I wonder if the "ham" part of hamburger will vanish for good, in a generation or so. wsieber, I've never thought of adjectives as propaganda! Could you expound a bit?
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#79011
08/27/2002 11:52 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Wordwind, I have some trouble with your use of "integrated" as an adjectival form of "integrity."
Whilst both words derive from the Latininteger, in common use they have slightly different connotations, I think.
It's not too bad when you use integrated as an adjective to describe someone/thing's completeness or unity - although even here, it jars a bit - but when you use it to describe someone's, or some institution's, honesty, it doesn't fit at all.
Both Cambridge and MW agree that integrity can mean either unity or honesty, but that integrate only means unite or complete.
And a slightly belated welcome to Lori, and thanks for an interesting thread.
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#79012
08/27/2002 12:24 PM
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Welcome to Lori, too.
Rhubarb,
I did NOT mean that well-integrated should be used in the case of a person. Reread what I wrote. I used the area of architecture--well-integrated elements. And I also wrote that perhaps a person's work might be considered to be well-integrated. But I didn't mean at all that we would think of a person as being well-integrated. In fact, I believe I wrote as much.
When I posted again, I wrote that the only adjective form I could think of that used the word integrity itself was well-integrated--but I certainly never meant that it could be applied to a person--as I wrote in my first post.
Harrumph!
WW
Edit: Here's exactly what I wrote, Rubard:
Now when we speak of a person's possessing integrity, that's something a bit different. I don't think I've
ever heard the phrase "well-integrated" applied to a person. Perhaps to a person's work, but not to a
person possessing integrity
See? I agree with you. I would never think of well-integrated being applied to a person. But there's probably some clever exception to this rule out there if we used our imaginations...
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#79013
08/27/2002 12:59 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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My apologies - I didn't go back and read whilst I was posting and got carried away, highly exuberated by my own verbosity. 
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#79014
08/27/2002 1:13 PM
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It's ok, Rhu! I just like keeping the record straight. And, 'sides, I've been caught so many times here for the same kind of thing, as you now!
And back on topic: What would be good opposites for integrity and its adjective, whatever it is...
WW
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#79015
08/27/2002 1:39 PM
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Welcome, lori! Thanks for launching this intriguing column...I'm sure you'll fit right in with all us Merry Wordsters! Could integral possibly have been an adjectivized form of integrity in an earlier incarnation before it's present sematic became more firmly entrenched? In a side note about integral...I pronounced it 'in-tri-cal for years when I was younger...and was very disappointed when I learned the truth of my error.
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#79016
08/27/2002 2:51 PM
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stranger
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Thanks to one and all for the warm welcome! It's great to have a forum in which to associate with fellow linguaphiles.
I appreciate all of the input received on this issue thus far. I think I am becoming attached to the word "integritive"--it seems to capture the essence of the word without sounding too awkward or contrived, which is important because I'm primarily interested in finding an adjectival form to use in discussing people.
I welcome further notes on this subject! Thanks for your time and words of wisdom...
lori
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#79017
08/27/2002 4:37 PM
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Hey, Dr. Bill!
What was your source for that UK usage of integritous? I mean, if it's a reliable source, then lori's friend might be correct that the word is out there and being used by educated people.
Anyway, if you still have the source, please post it here.
Thanks,
WW
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#79018
08/27/2002 4:37 PM
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Hey, Dr. Bill!
What was your source for that UK usage of integritous? I mean, if it's a reliable source, then lori's friend might be correct that the word is out there and being used by educated people.
Anyway, if you still have the source, please post it here.
Thanks,
WW
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#79019
08/27/2002 5:57 PM
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a standard google yields this http://pages.britishlibrary.net/orange/insurance.htmit's some insurance bloke calling the government black. I'd say it lacks a certain integritabilitudinosity.
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#79020
08/28/2002 5:42 AM
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I've never thought of adjectives as propaganda! Could you expound a bit? I did not say the adjectives were propaganda, but rather the noun "integrity", which, etymologically, means no more than completeness. It could be said of a complete..anything  .
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#79021
08/28/2002 5:47 AM
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I've never thought of adjectives as propaganda! Could you expound a bit? I did not say the adjectives were propaganda, but rather the noun "integrity", which, etymologically, means no more than completeness. It could be said of a complete..anything . In Horace's time, it was a bit different, since "integer" had a complement: http://www.recmusic.org/lieder/h/horace/cl14.html
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#79023
08/28/2002 2:52 PM
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veteran
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an acceptable adjectival form of the word "integrity" that uses the same rootHi lori, pleasedta meetya. I initially skim-read your question and misread it as a request for an adverbial form of "integrity". I quickly came to the conclusion that you wouldn't do anything with integrity except, well, everything. You can act with integrity, but that's about it. Whilst I was barking up the wrong tree on the adverb front, I think my conclusion has some relevance to the adjectival form, and perhaps indicates why "integritous" (amusing as it is) jars somewhat. Integrity is an all-or-nothing quality - regarding a particular person, it applies or it doesn't apply. In response to WW's question, I initially thought that "duplicitous" might be the opposite of "integritous", but having integrity is about much more than just being honest. It's also about being reliable, about completing what has been started (come what may), about keeping promises. So OK, you can stick all the adjectives together - honest, reliable, faithful - and that takes you quite close to a definition of integrity, but it's certainly nothing like 100%. There's something near-mystical (and yes, wsieb, wooly ) in integrity as wholeness and completeness. IMHO an adjectival form is simply inappropriate for integrity, in that it could't meaningfully be used in the same way as [struggling for a term] standard, lower-level adjectives. For instance: "Joe is more honest than Fred" is OK, but "Joe is more integritous than Fred" isn't, as it implies degrees of integrity. "Joe is (an) integritous (person)" has no advantage over "Joe has integrity" or "Joe acts with integrity". In fact the former has a notable disadvantage in that its meaning springs to mind less readily. - Which is all a roundabout way of saying I don't see a need for an adjectival form of the word. 
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#79024
08/28/2002 3:13 PM
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shona, I can buy your reasoning with regard to personage, but what about the citations for those odd coinages above; i.e., integrious candor, integritive conduct -- which is to say conducting oneself with integrity. why do you suppose those didn't stick?
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#79025
08/28/2002 3:40 PM
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stranger
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Interesting insights, FishonaBike. However, I don't really see why we shouldn't have an adjectival form in a single word that means "having integrity" instead of making ourselves turn it into a longer sentence construction whenever a reference to a person's character/actions is made. It would be especially useful if one were speaking of someone having integrity among other qualities in a list format, as in, He was a friendly, sincere, compassionate, integritive (etc) man. This is certainly easier than having to convert the whole phrase or sentence to make the point.
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#79026
08/28/2002 4:00 PM
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We've touched on this before, tswum. One reason may be that these two words are just plain ugly.
TEd
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#79027
08/28/2002 5:50 PM
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>just plain ugly.
if that were any criterion, we'd hardly be saddled with tinny words like recidivist and spittle.
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#79028
08/28/2002 6:00 PM
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Take lori's sentence:
"He was a
friendly, sincere, compassionate, integritive (etc) man."
And just make it:
He was a
friendly, sincere, compassionate man of integrity."
I don't espcially miss not having the adjective here--if it exists.
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#79029
08/28/2002 6:16 PM
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again, harking back to the citations, you have to write, e.g.:
To maintain [an integritive] conduct marked by integrity towards our fellow-creatures.
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#79030
08/28/2002 10:38 PM
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veteran
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To maintain [an integritive] conduct marked by integrity towards our fellow-creatures.Or perhaps just "To maintain [ or act with] integrity towards our fellow-creatures", Nunc? The original context looks a bit flowery to me.
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#79031
08/29/2002 8:29 PM
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My 2p worth ...
Obviously since adjectival forms of integrity have been tried and found wanting, the language simply doesn't feel it needs the form. After all, we have serendipity (same final syllable) and serendipitous as an adjectival form, so integritous would seem to fit the word formation rule. But it's not used, and gawd knows, we're not behindhand in grabbing words where there's a need for them. Or even where there's not, for that matter.
So clearly it's neither needed nor wanted. And I'm not sure that anyone seeing integritous would necessarily understand what it means except, of course, if the meaning was as plain as the nose on your face from the context alone.
I don't recommend using it if you want your prose to have clarity.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#79032
08/29/2002 8:59 PM
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>I don't recommend using it if you want your prose to have clarity. Careful, CapK, people smight start talking if you agree with me too often
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#79033
08/29/2002 10:04 PM
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Ah well, I suppose a little knowledge has always been a dangerous thing, hmmm?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#79034
08/30/2002 11:11 AM
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I don't recommend using it if you want your prose to have clarity.That would then be clarititous prose? sjm, are you and CK engaged, yet?
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#79035
08/30/2002 11:23 AM
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>sjm, are you and CK engaged, yet?
Always - engaged in mortal combat, to be the Zildest poster here.
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#79036
08/30/2002 11:29 AM
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Always - engaged in mortal combat, to be the Zildest poster here.Ooh, ooh! Can I try for third place?  Better yet would be nestled snugly in between you two...[dreamy sigh]
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#79037
08/31/2002 1:11 AM
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Always - engaged in mortal combat, to be the Zildest poster here.Get your adjectives right, sjm. If you mean "the most Zildian poster", then the superlative adjectival form of Zild should be Zildiest. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#79038
08/31/2002 1:28 AM
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>the superlative adjectival form of Zild should be Zildiest.
Yeah, I thought of that, but it just sounded too silly.
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#79039
08/31/2002 1:32 AM
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Yeah, I thought of that, but it just sounded too silly. sjm
The silliest Zildiest poster...
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#79040
08/31/2002 2:37 AM
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That's enough from the cheap seats, WordWangler ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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