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veteran
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veteran
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wseiber, mav, couldn't agree more.
The point is that you can't force language down a particular path. Meaning comes from within. It's like when PC parents deny their children toy guns and swords; fifteen minutes later the farmer has become a commando, the combine harvester is an enemy-grinding machine and the farming implements have become an imaginative assortment of tactical arms.
Bless 'em!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
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As I understand it sex was/is supposed to refer to the biological state of being male or female and gender was borrowed from linguistics to refer to that state's sociological consequences. I think using gender to refer to the biological state blurs a useful distinction, especially with regard to language where the gender of nouns in some languages (German was Mark Twain's famous example) may not reflect the (biological) sex.
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
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sociological consequences
Thanks for that, Bingley. It's a clear exposition - given me something to chew on.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
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Brilliant, Bingley -
A well-reasoned and lucid argument for something I could only justify in terms of personal preferences.
I doff my (virtual) hat to you, sir!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
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...someone restrain me before I start on the members and addicts
Heaven forfend that, in this context, you should start upon the members. (Where's the emoticon for tears in the eyes?)
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
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In reply to:
sex was/is supposed to refer to the biological state of being male or female
The only problem with this being that a chappie called John Donne, nearly 400 years ago, wrote a poem called "The Good Morrow" (I may misremember the name - it's been a long time), in which the word 'sex' was used as a verb - to engage in coitus, or copulate, asyou might say. Ever since then, unfortunately, it has been difficult to use it in reference to the biological state on its own, since most people instantly associate it with the biological state of play!
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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veteran
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veteran
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400 years ago, eh, shanks?
Ah well, I suppose what's Donne is Donne.
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old hand
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old hand
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A story, possibly apocryphal, about the great metaphysical poet, is that after he and his wife fell out, he wrote with his finger on the frost coating his window:
John Donne
Anne Donne
Undone
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stranger
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stranger
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I'm an acting teacher, and I worked this summer with a trans-sexual actor, someone who has had facial surgery, hormones, but not the big "chop" yet. Her gender was female, her sex was male, though this was generally perceived as being off-limits in discussions. Other teachers on the course struggled with calling this person "she", mostly because they still connected with some very masculine aspects of her voice and body, though her mannerisms, clothing and name were extremely feminine. In this case, the term gender was very helpful.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
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John Donne/Anne Donne/Undone
On the basis of previous performances by Donne, I think this may well not be apocryphal, shanks.
The man lived some!
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