#77938
08/08/2002 3:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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When is a YART not a YART? I suggest that a word which has not been posted for over a
years bears repetition, because so many new members will not have seen it. Shanks used
such a word a year and a half ago, and Byb repeated it, but neither gave a definition. So
it seems permissible to mention it again and give a definition from article in DISCOVER:
?Gallileo...in 1610....was amazed to find that the Milky Way was in fact 'a congeries of
innumerable stars distributed in clusters' "
As a quibble, it seems to be used only in the plural. But does that make it permissible to speak
of "a congeries" ?
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#77939
08/08/2002 4:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,803 |
Without looking anything up, is it possible that congeries is singular?
Ha! Went and looked it up. Not unlike series, congeries is both singular and plural.
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#77940
08/08/2002 4:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Faldage: Interesting. Can you think of others in this class?
A "menagerie" is a collection, but although my dictionary doesn't say so,
I presume the plural would be "menageries".
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#77941
08/08/2002 4:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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others in this class
Right off the top my head, species is the onliest one pops. I notice they all end in -ies.
In cricket, innings is singular and, I think, plural, too. Any cricket fans out there reading this? Rube? Rhube?
Course, if you just mean words that are their own plurals, many animal names qualify. Sheep, deer, moose, etc.
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#77942
08/08/2002 5:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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and then there are peas, which used to be pease (as a singular) but the singular got turned into pea.
and the same hold for cherries.. which used to be singular, and but in time the singular morphed into cherry. the french for cherries is cerice (which is also an english word for a rich medium red)
Are there others?
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#77943
08/08/2002 5:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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others in this classhttp://members.aol.com/gulfhigh2/words14.html (page down a bit) also YART® is its own plural (yet additional rehashed topics).
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#77944
08/08/2002 7:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Any cricket fans out there reading this? Rube? Rhube?
Well, not eggzacly a cricket fan but, yes, you are right:
"This is the first innings that Grace has played in this match."
"How many innings have the Indian side played so far?"
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#77945
08/08/2002 8:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,074 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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An interesting concept, to be at once singular and plural. Where does "apparatus" fit in this schema? It isn't really "just another" collective noun, but one is hard put to decide on a sensible plural.
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#77946
08/08/2002 9:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Good one, wofahulicodoc: The dictionary gives a plural, but I have never seen or heard
it used.When I speak of apparatus, I think of one or more pieces of equipment that require
additional tools or supplies.
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#77947
08/08/2002 11:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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wunderkind/wunderkinder
In the German this takes the new form in the plural, but it English I believe it just takes the s, wunderkinds, just like in one kind or many kinds. Kindergarten was co-opted directly from the German so that doesn't support the -er suffix.
Hmm...does that make kindergartners a redundant plural?
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#77948
08/09/2002 8:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
kindergartners !! Is this what children use to hold there snocks up? 
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#77949
08/09/2002 11:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
In reply to:
An interesting concept, to be at once singular and plural. Where does "apparatus" fit in this schema? It isn't really "just another" collective noun, but one is hard put to decide on a sensible plural.
Huh? Since when is "apparatus" a collective noun? You could have one apparatus or two apparati, right? Or am I on crack?
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#77950
08/09/2002 11:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
You could have one apparatus or two apparati, right? Or am I on crack?
On the other hand, a pair a twos equals four - or else is the start of a low value prile.
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#77951
08/09/2002 12:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>You could have one apparatus or two apparati, right? Or am I on crack?
according to the apparatus of both major sets of lexicographers, you would appear to be cracked in some manner. the plural is given as apparatuses or apparatus, US preference; other way, UK. (OED does mark the plural as "rare".)
actually, it works much like 'furniture'.
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#77952
08/14/2002 6:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,074 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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...one apparatus or two apparati, right?
Not sure that's the right paradigm even in the original Latin. I recall being told that apparatus is something like a fifth declension noun, and so the plural is not -us, -i but rather -us, -us with a long u, whatever that is.
Anybody left among us who knows Latin? Mine is only by osmosis, and I would jump at the opportunity to be better informed...
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#77953
08/14/2002 7:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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fifth declension noun, and so the plural is not -us, -i but rather -us, -usIf it is 5th declension I think the nominative plural would be apparates but I won't swear. My noun decliner on my machine here at work only goes up to 3rd declension. The genitive singular would be apparatus. Lessee what AHD has to say, if anything useful. FWIW, it lists the plurals (it has two) as apparatus and apparatuses. When giving the Latin it doesn't use a long u in the -us suffix and I believe the -us in the nominative singular has a long u. Well, I went here ( http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=apparat&ending=us) and it looks like it's 4th declension, but the plural would be apparatus.
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#77954
08/14/2002 9:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yup. It's 4th declension and the plural is apparatus with a long u. The singular is with a short u.
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#77955
08/15/2002 1:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>You could have one apparatus or two apparati, right? Or am I on crack?And you could have one Jazzoctopus or two Jazzoctupi, right? Ergo, one architectus or two architecti. 
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#77956
08/15/2002 1:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
two architectiooo. . . I think I'll have to adopt that.
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#77957
08/15/2002 12:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 11,613 |
BOHICA. I think you-all are architecting new rules for this ol' language...(hi, tsuwm).
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#77958
08/15/2002 2:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
(hi Jackie). [nothing nonsubstantial to add to an already post-insubstantial thread]
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#77960
08/15/2002 10:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the plural of octopus was hexadecipus
Umm, that's the dual. The plural would be tetradodecormoripus
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#77961
08/16/2002 3:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 4,189 |
tetradodecormoripus
Oh, come on now, Faldage...everybody knows a tetradodecormoripus was a cat-like bony fish with four tails that swam the Devonian seas using a motion similar to the modern cormorant (a bird)...go figure.
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#77962
08/16/2002 3:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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two architectiooo. . . I think I'll have to adopt that. Uh, 'scuse me Jazzo, but...architecti ®©. The contract's in the mail.
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