#77511
08/02/2002 10:06 PM
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A word I never saw before, but useful enough I wonder why not. From latest Smithsonian
magazine, in a review of a series of books: "The books are set on a fictive island....."
I like it. Do you?
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#77512
08/03/2002 12:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2002
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old hand
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> "The books are set on a fictive island....."
I like it. Do you?
About as much as I like toothache. What in the name of all that's holy is wrong with fictional?
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#77513
08/03/2002 1:15 AM
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De gustibus, and all that. I know several others, but none of them seem to me to fit as well.
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#77514
08/03/2002 11:01 AM
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I guess I would have used 'a ficticious island'. Would that be incorrect, wrong, ill-advised, etc.???
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#77515
08/03/2002 12:37 PM
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But "fictitious" has unfortunate connnotation of meaning an attempt to deceive.
"Imaginary" would be closer.
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#77516
08/03/2002 12:44 PM
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I suppose that ficticious does hint of deception. Similarly, to me, 'imaginary' hints of a far-fetched, daydream sort of isle......maybe that's what the author was getting at however.
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#77517
08/03/2002 2:37 PM
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Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away......
"Fictive" seems to do a better job of inviting you to participate in the make-believe.
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#77518
08/03/2002 8:10 PM
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old hand
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Again, I ask, and would appreciate the courtesy of an answer, what is wrong with "fictional"?
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#77519
08/03/2002 8:16 PM
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Dear sjm: I did not intend to be rude, and regret having seemed so. "Fictional"
is a perfectly good word, but it just seemed to me that a new word offered a
bit more class. My dictionary has "fictive" so it's not just a new coinage.
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#77520
08/04/2002 1:11 AM
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>My dictionary has "fictive" so it's not just a new coinage.
Indeed not, apparently. Merriam-Webster dates it 1612, while fictional is dated 14th C, so the two are very close in age and meaning.
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#77521
08/04/2002 2:18 AM
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who knows what lies at the heart of these words?
the shadow (also known as joe friday) [a fictitious and fictional construct bearing some fictive gravitas] do...
Fiction
[14c: from Latin fictio/fictionis a shaping, from fingere/fictum to fashion]. A general term for something created by the human mind. It has three aspects, each with an appropriate adjective: (1) (Both countable and uncountable). Not fact, but an invention of some kind, sometimes a fabrication or lie. The detective Sherlock Holmes was an invention of the writer Arthur Conan Doyle, and as such is fictitious; no such person ever lived. (2) (Usually uncountable). Not fact, but still part of reality; imaginative narrative, often part of literature: works of fiction in contrast with non-fiction, especially in bookshops and libraries. Here the fictional Sherlock Holmes is a fact in the sense that a character with this name appears in certain stories and films, and can be discussed in much the same way as a historical person. (3) (Usually countable). A special kind of 'fact': a social and cultural construct, such as a legal fiction that helps in the administration of the law, temporal fictions such as the days of the week, and geographical fictions like the Equator. Such constructs are part of life; they are fictive or constructed, and include products of imaginative storytelling. Fictively, Sherlock Holmes and the Equator are on a par, the one influencing crime writers, criminologists, and enthusiasts for the detective story, the other affecting geographers and sailors. The fictive generally subsumes both the fictional and the fictitious. Fictitious reports and fictional plots and characters are constantly being created in a language like English. At a certain level of discussion the language is itself fictive: something created by the human mind within a cultural system so as to serve certain social ends.
The Oxford Companion to the English Language, © Tom McArthur 1992
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#77522
08/04/2002 10:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
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<temporal fictions such as the days of the week>
On every 6th weekend when I am required to work (manufacturing coverage), Saturday and Sunday are indeed *fiction*.
What an interesting commentary tsuwm.....and it's even written at a level where a left-brainer like ME can understand it!!
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#77523
08/04/2002 1:08 PM
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one of my boys, when he was about 5, and had learned the meaning of fiction, used to call himself "Eye-fiction Man!". he would imagine things to be different than they were, as he looked at them, such as colored vapor-trails from jets, and other very creative visuals. it made for some very interesting conversations! I was sad when that phase passed...
formerly known as etaoin...
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#77524
08/05/2002 11:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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A special kind of 'fact': a social and cultural construct, such as a legal fiction that helps in the administration of the law, temporal fictions such as the days of the week, and geographical fictions like the Equator. Such constructs are part of lifeSo would Bill's "fictive island" be an island that it is for some reason useful to believe in, nuncle? Or is it enough that the island provides a location for a set of stories? That would appear a little self-referential and presumptuous - i.e. "If this book gets the huge amount of attention I think it deserves, the island will become as valid a construct as the days of the week or the Equator" Perhaps the writer is trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy  (any vested interest in the book(s) doing well, perchance?)
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#77525
08/05/2002 1:23 PM
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>Perhaps the writer is trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy...
but wasn't the writer in question a reviewer?
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#77526
08/06/2002 9:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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>Perhaps the writer is trying to create a self-fulfilling prophecy...
but wasn't the writer in question a reviewer?
That's why I was wondering if he had a vested interest, shares in the publishing company or whatever. Insider dealing is not unheard of even these days, enRon.
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#77527
08/06/2002 9:29 PM
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I don't expect "fictive" to be used very often. But this once, I liked it. Again, I hope
I have not sounded stuffy. Bill
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