#77304
07/31/2002 12:34 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
Recently I was watching a cooking show featuring an Australian presenter. Since my father taught me that the "differently abled" are children of Allah, I won't mock her for suffering that cruel affliction. However, she did insist on pronouncing the name of Bush Sr.'s favourite vegetable "brocco-lie". My question is, was this just an individual quirk, or another example of the process by which English has devolved into Strine?
|
|
|
#77305
07/31/2002 12:59 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
maybe she just meant the plural. 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
#77306
07/31/2002 1:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
Brocco-lie
Glad to see that the "differently abled" are not to be mocked, sjm!  I'm beginning to appreciate this Allah of yours.
I'm only speaking for myself, not the rest of the "differently abled" population, but I say Brocco-lie. So, what's the crime?
|
|
|
#77307
07/31/2002 4:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
~lee here, just to be different.
|
|
|
#77308
07/31/2002 5:35 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
just to be different.
Yeahbutt®, you're from South 'Differently Abled'. SDAs do everything a little different. Dance, plants, prance... hey, no one said we couldn't mock our own!
|
|
|
#77309
07/31/2002 11:00 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Brits used to say "brocco-lee". Now they call it "calabrese" 
|
|
|
#77310
07/31/2002 12:04 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
"Brocco-lie"?? Ok, I'll be kind: outrage; horrors; anathema.
|
|
|
#77311
07/31/2002 12:44 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 131
member
|
|
member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 131 |
Maybe I'm just rough around the edges, but as I spoke the word out loud it came out 'broc-lee'. That's right, two syllables.
|
|
|
#77312
07/31/2002 12:47 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 322
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 322 |
And I say it brockle-ee, which is not quite the same as brocco-lee.
|
|
|
#77313
07/31/2002 1:35 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
I'm with boronia:
brockle-ee
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
#77314
07/31/2002 1:53 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
Now they call it "calabrese" You're right, Rhuby! I think this is primarily followers of St Delia, though, isn't it? How do USns and (non DSA ) Strine-speakers pronounce Cubby Broccoli's surname, then?
|
|
|
#77315
07/31/2002 1:55 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
SJM:
I pronounce it with a long e on the end. Been around well more than half a century and I never heard it with a long i sound.
But this thread reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask for some time now, with the question being directed more towards our friends in the UK.
A year or so ago I took Sasha to the library to stock up on reading material (Usually twenty books at a time now!) There was an English children's book which had pictures of things around the household. As I'm driving home Sasha is leafing through the book reading the captions. When she said "pot plant" I corrected her, "Nope, that's a potted plant."
She replied emphatically, "No, Daddy, it's a pot plant." When we stopped at a red light I looked at the book. Sure enough, there was a picture of a plant in a pot and the caption said "Pot plant." What is REALLY curious is that the plant looked suspiciously like cannabis plants I've umm seen in pictures. Yeah, that's it. Never seen one growing in a closet with a grow light on it, of course.
Question for UKrs: Is "pot plant" a term you would use for any plant with its roots in a pot or were the authors having us on?
TEd
TEd
|
|
|
#77316
07/31/2002 2:15 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
Is "pot plant" a term you would use for any plant with its roots in a potAmazingly enough, yes, TEd You see, we never call the plant with the interesting and distinctive leaves that you've seen in pictures "pot" - it's "grass" or "weed" or "skunk". Um, I believe. In resinous form it's "hash" or "dope", although you do get people talking about "dope plants" just to confuse matters. I've only ever heard USns and misled oldsters (trying to look with it) call it "pot". waiting to be corrected by Rhuby!
|
|
|
#77317
07/31/2002 2:32 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Makes you wonder how in Oz they pronounce fettucini, teriyaki or even kiwi, for that matter.
|
|
|
#77318
07/31/2002 2:39 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
how in Oz they pronounce fettucini, teriyaki or even kiwi
Don't have any of those in Oz, do they?
[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]
|
|
|
#77319
07/31/2002 2:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"Bush Sr.'s favourite vegetable "brocco-lie". A canard. And that's no lie.
|
|
|
#77320
07/31/2002 11:10 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
Now they call it "calabrese"
Nah - it's a different vegetable, and trust me on this because I grow both (whatever Delia may or may not say!)
Broccoli is a much taller and leggier plant that continues to stand through much of the winter (with purple and white sprouting forms), and calabrese is a quick-growing summer/autumn plant that is not hardy and grows larger florets that are comparatively like little green cauliflowers.
I love both but they are distinct and different in taste, texture, appearance, aroma, season....
|
|
|
#77321
08/01/2002 8:31 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
>Now they call it "calabrese"
Nah - it's a different vegetableAh-hah! It all makes sense. I'd heard fairly recently that broccoli is not the green stuff but the "purple sprouting" stuff, which indeed has a different taste and texture, and is also a rolling-into-Winter veg. I've just sussed that my kids love calabrese, but don't like broccoli. There's useful education.
|
|
|
#77322
08/01/2002 2:59 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Sure, of course it's a different veg - doesn't stop the ignorant and uninitiated from calling "broccoli" (which is , indeed, as you describe it) "calabrese" - nor does it stop greengrocers (or the supermarket dumb version of that honorable trade) from labelling it so. And, as to "pot" as a name, shona - I've not heard that used since mid-70s, I think. "Blow" was popular for a while, but I don't think it is now. I don't currently mix with anyone who is likely to inform me - life do get boring, don't it?
|
|
|
#77323
08/01/2002 3:28 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
you live an ocean a way.. but i am up todate on current terms, and perhaps, not recently unfamiliar with some products from the Hemp family..
(but who knows this is the internet, and i could be a dog...)
|
|
|
#77324
08/01/2002 3:35 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
but who knows this is the internet, and i could be a dog...A sniffer dog, perhaps, that can't help but take work home.
|
|
|
#77325
08/01/2002 5:36 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Parm my French, but what the heck is Calabrese (or calabrese, I guess)?
mav's description of it gives me an idea what it looks like - do we have this Italian-surnamed veggie in the US? If so, what do we call it? If kids who don't like broccoli do like calabrese, I gotta get some onto our family meal rotation.
|
|
|
#77326
08/01/2002 6:17 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
i am thinking that maybe they are talking about brocoli rabe-- vs broccoli. (calabrese is brocoli rabe? or calabrese is broccoli? who knows!)
Broccoli has big, tight, heads of flower buds..and thick stalks.. (that can be pealed, and eaten as well.. )
brocoli-rabe looks like broccoli that is anorexic... it is thin stalks, with some big green leaves, and thin, flowerbuds.. it looks more like a spinach than a broccoli.
while both are members of the same family, they are very different... (as different as cauliflower is from cabbage!) they look different, they have different growing times, and the taste very different.. someone should go find some pictures of these things.. since clearly, we have only a vague idea of what we are all talking about!
|
|
|
#77327
08/01/2002 6:25 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
|
|
|
#77328
08/01/2002 6:39 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
Main Entry: broccoli rabe
Pronunciation: -"räb
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps modification of Italian broccoli di rapa, literally, flowering tops of the turnip
Date: 1976
: a garden brassica (Brassica rapa ruvo) that is related to the turnip and produces edible leafy branching stalks and compact clusters of yellow florets -- called also broccoli raab \-"r@b, -"rab\, rapini
calabrese
A type of broccoli bearing clusters of blue-green to dark-green flower buds.
(Italian, Calabrian, from Calabria)
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
#77329
08/02/2002 1:55 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
or even kiwi
Don't have any of those in Oz, do they?
Are you kiddin' me? [rolleyes] We got so many Kiwis over here, we just can't get rid of 'em. Want some? Going cheap?
[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]
And here was I thinking you were a fish, not a chicken!
|
|
|
#77330
08/02/2002 1:58 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
>We got so many Kiwis over here, we just can't get rid of 'em. Want some? Going cheap?
Around 400,000 at last count. In the immortal words of the late, and largely unlamented Zildian PM Rob Muldoon, "NZers who move to Oz raise the average IQ of both countries."
|
|
|
#77331
08/02/2002 2:04 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
Around 400,000 at last count.
Geez, is that all? It feels like so much more than that.
|
|
|
#77332
08/02/2002 2:09 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
>Geez, is that all? It feels like so much more than that.
Wishful thinking.
|
|
|
#77333
08/02/2002 7:59 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
[running-away-and-hiding-behind-sjm -e]
And here was I thinking you were a fish, not a chicken! Depends what's for dinner. Thought for the day: if chickens could fly they wouldn't be renowned for running away. 
|
|
|
#77334
08/02/2002 11:55 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
I shudder to think how calabrese is being pronounced, if you guys are all complaining about the pronunciation of broccoli.
FWIW, in Italian it would be cahl-ah-BREH-seh. (Note that when I write eh that is something quite different from ay. It's something like the vowel in get, except for Kiwis, of course...) (Anyway, when I pronounce it, even in an English sentence, it comes out in Italian.) I can appreciate the need to make the word fit our English tongues, so I'm wondering what the anglicized version is!
Also, to me, the word is an adjective, not a noun, so it sounds funny to think of eating "calabrese". (A calabrese what? Bread? Person?)
|
|
|
#77335
08/02/2002 11:59 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
I know calabrese only as a type of sausage.
A googleization of calabrese, broccoli reveals hundreds of sites; I looked at the first two pages and they were all based in Ireland or the UK. I can't find a North American equivalent, but I ain't giving up. I'll ask at the greengrocer's tomorrow.
There's something sold in the US called broccolini; it's a recently-developed hybrid of broccoli and kale (I think).
And rabe is also called 'rappy.'
|
|
|
#77336
08/02/2002 12:41 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
it sounds funny to think of eating "calabrese". (A calabrese what? Bread? Person?)
depends ;)
(and FWIW, I pronounce it pretty much exactly as you describe, Bean, though I have no idea off the cuff what is general usage here)
|
|
|
#77337
08/02/2002 1:07 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
FWIW, I pronounce it pretty much exactly as you describe, Bean, though I have no idea off the cuff what is general usage hereUm, yes, well... I'm pretty sure the general UK pronunciation would be Cah-luh-BREEZ 
|
|
|
#77339
08/02/2002 3:06 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Jackie, yeahbut® can you find a calabrese site based in the USA or Canada that is *not about sausage? This is my problem. Looks like a job for Dr Bill! Oh. And I know how to pronounce it, all right. I was married to one! (OK, quiet down, boys in the back... )
|
|
|
#77340
08/02/2002 4:42 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 315 |
I imagine that the more likely possibility is
(insalata) calabrese
calabrese salad
since we have some different kinds of vegetables called insalata from somewhere, insalata romana, insalata
trevigiana...
Bean, you are always a surprise! Luckily, we have genders and articles, so
to eat "un calabrese" would be to eat a male person,
to eat "una calabrese" sound as eating, likely, a pizza as cooked in Calabria ,whatever it can mean.
|
|
|
#77341
08/02/2002 5:27 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Re: can you find a calabrese site based in the USA that is *not about sausage? This is my problem...
And I know how to pronounce it, ... I was married to one!
You were married to a sausage? well that explains alot!
|
|
|
#77342
08/02/2002 6:27 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
You were married to a sausage? well that explains alot!
Hey! When did you graduate to "boys in the back"???
|
|
|
#77343
08/02/2002 7:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
From seed ad on Internet:
There are two kinds of Broccoli, the Purple Sprouting
type, which is extremely hardy and is over-wintered and
gives small florets in the spring, and the summer types,
which are more like Cauliflowers in shape. These
summer types are called Calabrese or green sprouting
broccoli.
|
|
|
|
|
