#76464
07/19/2002 3:29 PM
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Dear A-Worders,
Some of you might remember me, some not... whichever way, let me just say things are going fine here in ol' Madrid, and I have a question for you all. It is this:
How should one say, "status quo", or "statu quo" (the Latin phrase, not the band)? In English I hear "status quo", and "statu quo" in Spanish. I suppose one must be the grammatically correct Latin declension (of the ablative, I suspect?), and the other some kind of modification of it, but which witch is which?
Hope everyone is well. Best wishes,
Marianna
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#76465
07/19/2002 7:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Marianna: A short time ago, AWADtalk had a vicious flamewar which caused all of our
Latin scholars to leave. I have only heard "status quo" used to mean "the condition (we are in)".
When appropriate "ante" may be added the mean "the prior condition". I would guess "status"
is the nominative, and "quo" the ablative to agree with implied preposition.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity of replying. The board has been so dead, I am glad to
have a chance to display my ignorance. Please don't stay away so long. Bill
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#76466
07/19/2002 10:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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Hi Marianna, Don't think I knew you in my last incarnation, but welcome back  Would a Latin "babelfish" (translator) help? Because Rhubarb Commanding er Commando managed to find one a while ago: http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=5052Using that, I've managed to suss that it is "status" although the "quo" after is a bit weird (found quosdam  ). I suppose given that "status quo" translates to "state in which", I shouldn't expect a frequent occurrence in real Latin. In other words it's an English corruption & shortening of a longer phrase that did make sense. I think.
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#76467
07/19/2002 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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Hola, Marianna. I am sure that fishonabike is correct. "Status quo" in English is likely to be a corruption and/or contraction of the Latin from which it derives. That would mean that the phrase should be viewed, not as incorrect Latin, but as correct English.
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#76468
07/20/2002 1:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Hi, Marianna - good to see you back again!
shona's explanation sounds good to me, but my query is, "How do you pronounce it?"
Personaly, I always say, "state - us" but I have quite often heard others say, "stat - us."
Is there a right and a wrong pronunciation? or will either do?
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#76469
07/20/2002 6:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Marianna! Delighted to see you back, Sweetie! Do we call you Dr. Marianna now? And--I'd had the idea that you were in England; was that wrong? Anyway--welcome to you, sjm. I was gonna put that yesterday, but my computer started making this really weird sort of clanking thump, when I was trying to research those -ane words, and I shut it down immediately. Rhuby, I was wondering how "statu quo" is pronounced, also. All I can imagine it as is "statue quo", and surely that can't be right? FWIW, I say stat-us quo. By the way, I heard a rumor that you eat cow pies and peripatet (hi, tsuwm) all over the place... 
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#76470
07/20/2002 7:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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No, Dan, I'm not that desperate - I had to give up cow pie when I got my last set of dentures (they wouldn't cope with the horns, that was my dilemma), more or less the same time that I stopped using an axe and blowlamp to shave with.  and I just don't understand your query about what the fairy called pat had for dinner. Maybe Gallant Ted would know - fairies called pat seem to be an Oirish sort of a ting
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#76471
07/22/2002 2:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
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Well, here's a Latinist returned, just in time it looks like.
Marianna, 'status quo' was originally the nominative case -- the one used when the expression is the subject of the sentence, and in English also as an object. So you have, "The status quo is not satisfactory," or "He considered the status quo not to be satisfactory" [objective/accusative case]. However, in proper English, we have preserved the Latin dative/ablative form 'statu' when the word 'in' is used, as, "It was decided to leave the matter in statu quo."
Pronuncation is short 'a' for both forms, and the 'u' is also short, so it's 'stattuss' or 'stattoo'.
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#76472
07/22/2002 8:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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Pronuncation is short 'a' for both forms
Ah, BYB, but surely you're talking about modern pronunciation, as we can never know how the Romans really said anything. In which case it's another pronunciation that differs either side of the Pond (as does that of status alone).
Brits say stay-tus rather than stattus.
Out of interest (wondering if this is a uniquely Brit thing), which pronunciation do Australasians adopt?
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#76473
07/22/2002 9:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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>Out of interest (wondering if this is a uniquely Brit thing), which pronunciation do Australasians adopt?
I happen to know a few New Zealanders, most of whom pronounce it stay-tis, where the "i" represents a schwa.
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#76474
07/22/2002 5:25 PM
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Posts: 427
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Wow, thanks everyone for your help... Having read your comments I realise that the most likely reason why I've recently been reading "statu quo" is that it has been used frequently in the phrase "return to statu quo", with reference to the Morocco-Spain disagreement. In this phrase, I think it would be in the ablative case, as Bob pointed out... or am I wrong?
Marianna
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#76475
07/22/2002 10:43 PM
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Posts: 477
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which pronunciation do Australasians adopt?
Well, speaking only for this Australasian, I say statt-us. That's my vote. Can't believe I'm the first Australasian to respond. Where is everyone?
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#76476
07/23/2002 4:34 AM
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I say stay-tus, or more probably stay-tss. In Oz, there's a 'long a' vs 'short a' thing between west and east respectively. Adelaide counts as west. Graph is the prime example.
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#76477
07/23/2002 4:54 AM
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Posts: 477
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I say stay-tus, or more probably stay-tss. In Oz, there's a 'long a' vs 'short a' thing between west and east respectively. Adelaide counts as west. Graph is the prime example.
Dance, prance, plants, trance, etc being more of them. Which is what makes me think that your stay-tss doesn't fit in with the sequence. Are you saying you pronounce status with the same 'ah' sound as the other words? Always knew you South Aussies were a strange mob!
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#76478
07/23/2002 11:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
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I say 'stayt-us' -- but I was a Brit before I was a Taswegian!
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#76479
07/23/2002 2:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
But it's strange, Paulb, isn't it, that in Lancashire you learnt to say "stay-tus" but would have said "gr-ass" and "br-ass" rather than "gr-ahss" and "br-ahss?"
(but appen tha's fergit ow t'speak Lonkyshire, be neow, lad?)
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#76480
07/24/2002 11:34 AM
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Posts: 460
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Your surmise is correct, Rhu, and I should confess that I left the old country when I was 9 or 10 and I doubt if I'd even heard the word 'status', however it was pronounced.
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#76481
07/24/2002 11:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Aye, Lancastrians are notoriously not very conscious of status - especially other peoples!!!!
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#76482
07/24/2002 1:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Bob, I am delighted to see you back, my friend! Love to you! [kiss]
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