#76267
07/17/2002 5:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1
stranger
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stranger
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> Can you help me with a word? This a noun for someone who
> innocently joins a group, comes to a party, sits at a
> meeting--whatever--and within minutes has everyone at each other's
> throats. It may be based on a mythical beast or malevolent force.
> The effect is pernicious, malefic, and usually completely innocent on
> the part of the individual who usually sees him- or herself as only
> trying to be 'helpful' and frequently comes out of the situation
> feeling hurt or unappreciated.
>
>
>
>
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#76268
07/17/2002 5:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear yomintz: For a coinage, how about a combination of "caca-" and "catalyst"
Cacacatalyst. or cacocatalyst
Edit replaced v with y
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#76269
07/17/2002 6:29 PM
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Posts: 1,055
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That's yomintz to you, Bill. 
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#76270
07/17/2002 6:50 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear belligerentyouth: I have macular degeneration, and even with extra magnification,
I was barely able to see the "tail" on the "y" because underline obscured it.
My apologies to yomintz
Edit: changed "fishonabike" to "belligerent youth"
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#76271
07/17/2002 7:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
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To stir up trouble is to cause general discontentment, and some of our Kiwis might lovingly call a person who does this a shit-stirrer. Otherwise you have your mischief-maker, trouble-maker, or incendiary (normally meaning an arsonist). These all mean someone who agitates (or inflames:-) factions and/or promotes quarrels. That's pretty close. That is to say, an 'incendiary' doesn't necessaryily willfully promote unrest, as far as I know.
Many comparisons to animals are popular for the kind of people you're talking about - a snake in the grass, or a viper, serpent; these are pretty general, but nonetheless have an exact meaning when used in context.
I'm sure there is some term from Greek or Roman mythology if that's what you're looking for, I just don't know it. Only a harpy, Furies, or a Siren come to mind, none of which fit too well. That's the best I can do.
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#76272
07/17/2002 7:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
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Hey by, I think yomintz is looking for a noun that incorporates what you've suggested, but without the malice aforethought - someone who has this ill effect unintentionally, perhaps. "Well-meaning snake-in-the-grass" doesn't have quite the right ring to it....Isn't yomintz looking for a noun to describe someone who brings strife but doesn't realize it, and is then surprised and hurt by the reaction he causes? Bill's attempt with "catalyst" is good, but I think there must be a word or phrase that's in more common use....Perhaps something incorporating the word "innocent"?
PS to Bill: I DON'T have macular degeneration and I also thought, at first, that the handle was "vomintz"!
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76273
07/17/2002 7:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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This isn't what yomintz is looking for, but it is a word that came to mind:
party-pooper
Ball regards,
WordWaltzer Hey, a ball is as close as I could get to a party with the requisite letter "b" and it worked well with the "w" for waltz. So be a party-pooper and shoot me!
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#76274
07/17/2002 7:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Hmmm... we had one of those on this board for many months.
How about "sociopath," or is that a wee bit too strong?
EDIT:
I realize now that my suggestion is not germane. The supposition is that the perpetrator had no motive, unlike the situation previously seen on this board.
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#76275
07/17/2002 8:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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Dear fishonabikeOops, weren't me, Bill! Don't know if I should be honoured or dismayed at being seen as a belligerentyouth. Honoured, I think, looking at the "youth" part. I'm almost positive yomintz is correct in thinking there is a specific term for someone who gets everybody at everybody else's throats without meaning to do so. I also think it is a mythical term... or maybe biblical. Ah! Is it a Jonah? That's more someone who brings bad luck to all around them, but it's certainly in the right direction. Fisk
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#76276
07/17/2002 9:09 PM
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> Jonah
I almost wrote of poor Jonah too, who when refusing to become a prophet was washed off his boat and out to sea, only to be swallowed by a whale, and finally later vomited (sic - literally) out to safety. I couldn't see that being what our friend was looking for though, so I scratched that idea. As you said though Fisk - the right direction:-)
Perhaps there is a medical name (beides side-effect) for unintentional negative effects caused by a drug that would be useful....
[clutching at straws]
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#76277
07/17/2002 9:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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such a person is a bane, a pest, a bête noire, a bugbear, a curse... and speaking of a curse, could be personified (so to speak) by Joe Bfstplk, the Al Capp cartoon character who walked around with a storm cloud over his head and was a total jinx but otherwise was pretty likable.
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#76278
07/17/2002 10:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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The epithet that springs to my mind is, "pillock."
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#76279
07/17/2002 10:52 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A sociallydestructive person is an illwind, because it's an ill wind that brings nobody any good.
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#76280
07/17/2002 11:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A sociallydestructive person is an illwind
Ahem. Not to be confused with a wordwind, Dr. Bill.
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#76281
07/18/2002 1:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
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I also think it is a mythical term... or maybe biblical.
When I have time, I'll have a look through my Facts on File Dictionary of Classical, Biblical, and Literary Allusions and see what I can find....but don't have time at the moment, should be heading off for bed, dammitall, what am I doing here AGAIN?!
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76282
07/18/2002 11:37 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
addict
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addict
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plonker or dipstick are good words for hapless mayhem magnets ( thinking rodney trotter here)
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#76283
07/18/2002 12:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
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> I'll have a look through my Facts on File Dictionary of Classical, Biblical, and Literary Allusions
Please do, MG, you might find what I'm trying to think of.
I like tsuwm's options; a bête noire is a little fav. of mine (sic).
I was lying round reading last night and it occured to me there there is probably a classical literary character that fits this description perfectly. I'm no expert on Greek lit. but I'm sure there's a Euripidean play that deals with this. Perhaps there is a character who fits this context? What about Deianeira? ...she certainly causes disaster unwittingly, when her desire to protect her marriage leads to Herakles' death, and her suicide. I don't know all those plays well enough to round down too well. Maybe someone else can. You'd think that in all the tragedies that Euripides or Aeschylus, or one of those blokes wrote, that they would have to have dealt with this topic.
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#76284
07/18/2002 12:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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plonker or dipstick are good words for hapless mayhem magnets Only thing is that neither specifies someone who brings bad things to others, dody, though certainly the unintentional aspect is there. However, I think the term "mayhem magnet" is brilliant, and should be included in the world-famous AWADictionary 
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#76285
07/18/2002 2:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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How 'bout Frankenstein?..."I only wanted to be friends with the girl, but she just kept screaming."
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#76286
07/18/2002 8:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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I can't for the life of me remember title or author of a story I read once about a lorry driver that couldn't escape the rain. That meant he could never stay long in one place because then there would be floods. Could it be Douglas Adams? This is now driving me nuts, TYVM! Admittedly, it's a short drive!
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#76287
07/18/2002 9:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Connie,
I'm not familiar with the story, but it sounds an awful lot like something Rod Serling would have conceived. ... begin 'Twilight Zone' theme music...
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#76288
07/18/2002 9:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Connie - you are dead right about it being Douglas Adams - can't remember which book of the trilogy he appeared in - the fifth, I think ( Mostly Harmless) The lorry driver was, in fact and unbeknownst to himself, a rain god. He eventually realised his potential and made a fortune selling his services to third-world countries stricken with drought. EDITNo - it isn't Mostly Harmless - try Goodbye - and thanks for all the fish, which is the fourth book.
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#76289
07/18/2002 9:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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a lorry driver that couldn't escape the rainI think it was Douglas Adams, and one of the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy books, Connie ( calling Max Quordlepleen!) ...though I may just be confusing it with another story where a lorry driver (or someone) is constantly being bugged ( ) by flies. It turns out he is The Lord Of The Flies (but not William Golding's pig-on-a-stick) and didn't know it. Ah! Is the other one a Terry Pratchett story? Quite close idea, though, as the lorry driver, it turns out, is a Rain God... Edit: Rhuby beat me to the draw there!
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#76290
07/18/2002 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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So Long and Thanks For All The Fish was my first instinct. My mother always told me to trust my instincts 'cause I have good ones!  Well, now, the rain god of this story is a bit like what is being talked about here, I think. I have a brosin that has that unhappy tendency of causing discord wherever he roams. It isn't intentional on his part and the discord is never against him. He has other qualities that have prompted us to call him many things, none of which would apply to this theme . Maybe we should call him Erismus. Nonetheless, he finds himself constantly on the move, running from the discord that surrounds him. Maybe he should apply for Jerry Springer's job? 
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#76291
07/18/2002 11:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Maybe he should apply for Jerry Springer's job?
Would he want Jerry Springer's job? Who'd want Jerry Springer's job? I've caught a few minutes of it in my lifetime and those few minutes left me feeling like giving up on the human race.
Hey! Maybe the noun for a socially destructive person could be a "jerryspringer"! Consuelo, I think you've done it again!
Battle regards,
WordWarrior
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#76292
07/18/2002 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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How about eristor? Eris was the Greek goddess of discord. http://www.messagenet.com/myths/bios/eris.htmlWW, I was saying that perhaps he should apply for J. Springer's job so that he could earn a living from his natural talent. This same talent makes it quite difficult for him to earn a living in the "normal" way, much like the lorry-driving Rain God of Douglas Adams' story.
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#76293
07/19/2002 12:15 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Consuelo:
I was joking. It was a joke: read: JOKE.
Sheesh! Terrible thing to have people think you're being serious when you're not.
Off to polish up my style,
WordWorst
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#76294
07/19/2002 3:35 AM
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Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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How about eristor? Or eristorator? He's a real eristorator, that one...never means any harm, but somehow his presence always rustles a fuss up.
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#76295
07/19/2002 8:20 AM
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Posts: 1,346
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So Long and Thanks For All The Fish was my first instinct. My mother always told me to trust my instincts 'cause I have good onesWell, your mother is dead right, Connie! Received word from On High , and the lorry driver's name is Rob McKenna. Here's a relevant (if slightly strange) link: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9846/strange/rainmake.htmlI'm still sure there is a term for an unwitting sower of social discord. Maybe I dreamt it.
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#76296
07/19/2002 8:51 AM
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Posts: 475
addict
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not sure but i think it was in the long dark teatime of the souls edit failed to read half this thread properly, apologies
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#76297
07/19/2002 9:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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In reply to:
not sure but i think it was in the long dark teatime of the souls
I have it on good authority that it comes from "So long, and thanks for all the fish"
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#76298
07/19/2002 1:39 PM
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Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Try The Joys of Yiddish by the other Rosten. There's a definition in there. tsuris maybe? My copy is packed away somewhere (I hope that I didn't lend it to an uncircumcised Philistine who committed the unpardonable sin of not returning a lent-out book.)
Or is tsuris the type of trouble? Gosh, getting old has its downside. But beats the hell out of the alternative.
TEd
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#76299
07/19/2002 3:43 PM
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Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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is a Yiddish word for trouble or woe. So a person who inflicts same might be a tsurist?
TEd
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#76300
07/19/2002 3:47 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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So a person who inflicts same might be a tsurist? Only if they're not in their home town! Welcome to you, yomintz (I also thought the first letter was v.) Hope somebody comes up with the right term--this is an interesting concept.
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#76301
07/21/2002 1:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
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How 'bout Frankenstein?
WO'N, close but no cigar. Found this in my dic. of class. all. etc:
...The monster, who in the course of time has usurped the name of his creator, initially yearns for human sympathy. Rejected, he turns on his maker and, destroying everyone he loves, hounds him to his death. Symbolically, the creation that turns on its creator.
still searching through dictionary, hoping for help....think we are looking for something like "a Cassandra" or similar (but NOT Cassandra - poor lass, she had rather different troubles)
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76302
07/21/2002 1:56 AM
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Posts: 833
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I wonder if "Lancelot" is close?
Although he generally represents the very model of knightly chivalry, his adulterous love for Guinevere tarnishes his image somewhat. It contributed to the failure of his quest for the Holy Grail, the collapse of the fellowship of the Round Table, and the death of Arthur.
Mmm. Not quite right. I'll keep looking....
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76303
07/21/2002 2:07 AM
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Posts: 833
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feels a little closer, this, but still not quite right: Parsifal....a "pure fool," some guileless and innocent knight....Ever onward.... Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76304
07/21/2002 2:12 AM
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Posts: 833
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Pickwick. ...Mr Pickwick was in the habit of using highly insulting language in a completely unmeaning and harmless way - hence the phrase "in a Pickwickian sense" is descriptive of word usage that departs from the sense commonly understood.
Dammit, that's not it either. All these seem to contain elements of what we're after, but none of them is quite right.
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76305
07/21/2002 2:18 AM
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Posts: 833
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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. ...Not really important enough to be evil but too foolish to be good...
Maybe if we combined all these names...!
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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#76306
07/21/2002 2:30 AM
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Posts: 833
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Well I bin all thru that damn Dictionary of Classical, Biblical, and Literary Allusions, with no success. The above entries are the best I can offer. This is bluddy frustrating! it's on the tip of my brain but I just can't get it....
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
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