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From the moon, the earth is just a blue and white ball, and even the continents cannot
reliably be made out.
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From the moon, the earth is just a blue and white ball- albeit a very beautiful one.  Yes, many people are aware of what you say having seen pictures such as Earthrise: http://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/earthrise.htmThat's presumably why the myth was amended to specify the Great Wall as the only man-made object visible from space after the Apollo missions (at a guess). I wonder how many myths have gone through a similar re-write to survive in the face of new evidence and new common experiences?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Some history books give the name "Irish Bull" to:The Bull of Pope Adrian IV Empowering Henry II to Conquer Ireland. A.D. 1155 "Bull" in this case is from "bulla" the Papal Seal.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Re:The Bull of Pope Adrian IV Empowering Henry II to Conquer Ireland
Yes, the only English bishop ever elected to be pope.. and look what he goes and does!
he decided that the catholic faith, as celebrated by the irish was "roman" enough, and that the english were the ones to set about teaching the irish how to be more roman..
900 years later, and there are still repercussions! The english have given up being catholic, but not their claims to ireland.
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journeyman
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journeyman
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As I understand it, the Great Wall was not a fortification, as such, but a way of intelligence gathering. The point of it was that you couldn't go past it without a sentry seeing you. The sentry then lit alarm fires visible for many miles around, allowing local militia to respond.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
Cheers,
Bryan
You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
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The Bull of Pope Adrian IV Empowering Henry II to Conquer IrelandHere's a bit more detail on the English (Anglo-Norman, to be more exact) invasion of Ireland, which suggests that a "deal with the Devil" kicked it off: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/nations/schama_ireland02.shtmlThe english have given up being catholic, but not their claims to irelandSorry, Helen, but that's not true. England has no claim at all on Eire, and is currently working with all parties to try to create an independently-governed Northern Ireland (to the extent that that is what its people want). I reckon Westminster would love to be able to divest itself entirely of Northern Ireland, but that ain't going to be easy. Yes, there was deliberate colonisation of Ireland, especially Northern Ireland, in the 17th C, but you can't send the descendants of these people back to Scotland (mainly) or England now. As such, you have to deal with the people who live there, and all have an equal right to be heard. Many of these people consider themselves British and would like to remain British. Many want anything but - yet, for instance, Sinn Fein now has seats in Westminster and has the same rights as Unionist MPs. Things definitely won't change overnight, but it's been a long, hard slog in the right direction, with many significant sacrifices made on all sides. I think it would be in poor taste not to give full credit to all involved, whatever their persuasion; and it would be a monumental tragedy if the fragile creation of all that hard work were to be shattered. For any passers-by who fancy a potted history of Northern Ireland, here's one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/northern_ireland/newsid_10000/10657.stm
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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In reply to:
reckon Westminster would love to be able to divest itself entirely of Northern Ireland, but that ain't going to be easy.
I am sure that you are correct, given Mr Straw's desperate eagerness to offload Gibraltar.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fishona, i actualy agree that the current situations is the best it has been in the last 500 years, and that a real effort has been made by all parties ... but to say England has no claim at all on Eire, and is currently working with all parties to try to create an independently-governed Northern Ireland --
it to say that the island nation of Eire which did exist for thousands of years doesn't..that is now two nations/states. And to place the problem back in the 17 century, and not in the partitioning of ireland in after the 1917 uprising, and the ensueing free state, is not quite acurate.
Yes, the colonist who came over in the 17th century had a right to remain.. but the english goverment made the problem with the partition..
I can understand the colonist thought themselves members of the UK and wanted to stay that way.. but the native people wanted to be part( and still want to be part!) of ireland.
Early in the last century, the english thought it was perfectly ok to disenfranchise the irish in the northern counties, rather than have the english colonist there disenfranchised by the northern counties remaining part of the irish whole...
i do have a love/hate relationship with the english.. and i think this is one area, where i will never to able to agree with the english point of view...
the english started messing in ireland almost 1000 years ago, and are still there.. it wasn't just in the 17th C. that they colonized.. for a 1000 years, they have been trying to impose their will.. and soon, because of birth rate differences, the majority of norther ireland will be, once again, irish. it might not happen in my lifetime, but it is happening.
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Dear of troy: just to put a burr under your saddle, I have read that St. Patrick was born
in Wales or thereabouts, and kidnapped by raiders from Ireland. This suggests that Irish
invited controls later applied.
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Well, Helen, it's certainly the last word that: soon, because of birth rate differences, the majority of norther ireland will be, once again, irish. it might not happen in my lifetime, but it is happening.- but meanwhile we have the situation we have, and no matter where and when the fault lies, that's what has to be dealt with. It seems to me that the Israel/Palestine situation is analogous (note I don't say "the same"), in that the more there is talk about historical rights and wanting to return the country to exactly how it was at some point in the past, the further all parties move from the possibility of peace right now. It all turns into a body count, comparing wounds, feeling increasingly self-righteous in recalling the history, and it usually results in the body count being upped a bit more. So it goes - very sad and all too predictable. I get heartily sick of history sometimes, especially when used as justification by successive generations. As such, I quite admire the line taken in this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/flashbks/ireland/kelle.htmJohn V. Kelleher, is an Irish American (so can't be accused, I suspect, of Unionist tendencies), writing back in 1954. Interesting what has changed in almost 50 years and what has stayed the same ("the future is the same as the past" to cross-thread  ). I especially admire Kelleher's willingness to discard history and attend to the (then as now) current situation. I suspect he would see recent developments as going in the right direction. And, going by this article, he would counsel a patient but persistent "gently does it" approach, and would make a notable effort to consider the perspective from the "other side" at such a delicate time. A good man. We could do with many more like him around today. i think this is one area, where i will never to able to agree with the english point of viewThat depends upon what you see as "the English point of view", and whether you think all English people share the same point of view. To the extent that you would get a consensus, I reckon you'd find most English people don't really care about Northern Ireland. "Let it go". As many Unionists see it, they're being slowly but surely sold down the river and they are outraged by the lack of concern and the English ignorance of their situation. But (English) public opinion isn't in their favour and devolution (of varing degrees) is still flavour of the month in the UK. As for me - I can live with agreeing to differ, Helen, and have got on just fine with practically every Irish person I've met. Even the two I met on a train, wearing Brazilian shirts after Brazil had beat England in the World Cup. Bastards.   .
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