#75595
07/10/2002 11:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Mav: I cheerfully plead ignorance, and beg the boon of your enlightening me.
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#75596
07/11/2002 12:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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oh Bill, I'm shocked :) Here's a representative quote from a quick googlehaul: "A Man of Kent by birth., which means I was born east of the River Medway as opposed to a Kentish Man who comes from the west of the river. Legend says, the Men of Kent resisted William the Conqueror more stoutly than the Kentish Men, who weakly surrendered. Afterwards the bravery of the Men of Kent made them proud while Kentish Men were believed to be weak-minded, and so a keen rivalry developed...." http://dmoz.org/profiles/ddrj.html
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#75597
07/11/2002 12:27 AM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear MAV: the dictionary of phrase and fable I am mining had a similar bit of information
about Kent. I was unaware that anybody in AWADtalk would be interested, so I did no
select it to post, nor remember it. I have no idea where the Medway is. Which side
did the wellendowed lad inhabit?
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#75598
07/11/2002 12:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Don't know, Bill - but I guess whichever side of the river he came from, he went over to the other side ;)
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#75599
07/11/2002 1:14 AM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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What a trajectory to his ejaculation!
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#75600
07/11/2002 9:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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What a trajectory to his ejaculation!Ha! The most miniscule of sneezes when set alongside panspermia.  Back to Kent, here's a nice little overview (including a bit of history) of "The Garden of England": http://www.angelfire.com/tn/goldengreen/manokent.html
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#75601
07/11/2002 4:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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Well, I adore my man Kent  , and thank you, shona/fisk, for your informative link which said, among other things, The division may have arisen when the Jutes, who settled in Thanet over 1,500 years ago, moved into the area we know as Kent, calling on part East Centingas and the other West Centingas. There have been two Kent dioceses since AD605 - Canterbury (East Kent) and Rochester (West Kent). . Now I have a couple more questions (surprise, surprise). It also said Kent has ...there is the well-worn image of the White Cliffs of Dover, the hopfields, oasthouses, blossoming orchards, attractive timber and pantile houses .... What are oasthouses and pantile houses, please?
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#75602
07/11/2002 5:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
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Oast houses! oo, oo i know!
Oast is a classic crossword puzzle word! Oast is the name given to the ovens in which hops are dried. Hops are the last crop of the year for the migrant farmers (that bit comes from being forced at some point to read Tess of the D'ubervilles. (i detest Hardy!)
Hops are used to flavor and preserve beer.
now as for the Pantile houses.. you need someone else!
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#75603
07/11/2002 7:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
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Mav:
Yes, there's a difference twixt the Kentish and the man of Kent, but that pales into insignificance when one considers the cowardly Viords. When the Picts marched into their lands they rolled over on their backs and exposed their bellies without even lifting a finger. So cowardly were they that to this day we say: one Pict is worth a thousand Viords.
TEd
TEd
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#75604
07/11/2002 8:17 PM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Evidently a place name, but all I could find was:
Fairfax Gallery - set in the heart of the historic Pantiles. Features contemporary art.
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#75605
07/11/2002 8:24 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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I had a hunch and searched for England travel Pantiles and got a picture, but I can't figure out yet what "Pantiles" means. http://www.geocities.com/~arow/html/tunbridge_wells_0498a-x1.htmlUnless it means that wide flagstone promenade or whatever it should be called.
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#75606
07/11/2002 9:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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but I can't figure out yet what "Pantiles" meansIt's a particular type of roof-tiling, Bill, as used on the "outhouse" ( not "backhouse" in this case ) at this property: http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/ppom012001.htmKent is the county adjoining East Sussex, where I live. Definitely has its own unique character and beauty.
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#75607
07/11/2002 11:36 PM
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Posts: 13,858
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ROYAL TUNBRIDGE WELLS
Museum and Art Gallery
Open Mon/Sat 9.30am-5pm. No admission charge.
A stylish 18th-century spa town. One of the most elegant parts of the town
is the Pantiles, a 17th-century arcade where the gentry of the Regency
period used to gather and take the waters. It now houses specialist shops
and studios, but at its centre is the Chalybeate Spring, where you can still
take a glass of spring water for 25p. The museum/gallery, at the northern
end, has a good collection of local ceramics, Tunbridge ware, and
agricultural relics.
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#75608
07/12/2002 9:04 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
East Sussex, where I liveIs that the same as South Essex then, FoaB?
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#75609
07/12/2002 10:15 AM
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Posts: 1,346
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ROYAL TUNBRIDGE WELLS...One of the most elegant parts of the town is the PantilesYes Bill - part of the town named after an architectural feature (the type of roofing in this case), a bit like calling an old part of town The Cobbles. Not to be confused with Cobblers. "Tunny Wells" is just up the road from me, easy shopping trip distance.
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#75610
07/12/2002 10:29 AM
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Posts: 1,346
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>East Sussex, where I live
Is that the same as South Essex then, FoaB? No!  There's certainly reason to your rhyme though - Sussex is a shortening of South Saxons and Essex of East Saxons. The split between East and West Sussex, however, was a relatively recent political/administrative thing. http://www.camelotintl.com/heritage/counties/england/sussex.html
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#75611
07/12/2002 11:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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Ohhhhhh, thank you, Shona! How utterly lovely! (Hi, dxb.) I WILL get to England, I WILL get to England...
I've heard of several places your link mentioned. It had one sentence that struck me as odd: Sussex is drained north to south by a number of rivers Although true, I'm sure, it would "taste better" to me if it said something like 'several rivers run north to south through Sussex', or 'Sussex gets a great deal of rain, and several rivers help drain off the excess'. The way the link words it, I was expecting to find that Sussex had a drainage system that had been deliberately set up.
Oh--one thing struck me as funny: it mentioned "the Saxon Ella"--made me think of salmonella!
Um--is this where the white cliffs of Dover are?
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#75612
07/12/2002 12:45 PM
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Posts: 1,346
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'Sussex gets a great deal of rain, and several rivers help drain off the excess' Love this, J! Nah, it doesn't really - in fact, Sussex, being about as far South as you can get in England, benefits from fairly mild conditions, and gets a lot less rain than, say, Scotland (hi Jo!) or Ireland (hi Rube!). Or Manchester (hi dody!) at that. A very notable exception was during the floods a couple of years back, but then it was very wet all over the country. I thought that saying a place "is drained by a number of rivers [going wherever]" or "is drained primarily by the river Ouse [or whatever]" was just correct geographical-type terminology; and I assumed this construction to be global. Is that not the case, then? "the Saxon Ella"--made me think of salmonella!The Salmon Ella was, of course, a warrior king of the Salmon that, with some cronies, swam up river and laid waste the spawning grounds of other fish. These other fish found his presence hard to stomach. More on the Saxon Ella here: http://63.1911encyclopedia.org/E/EL/ELLA.htmNot the sort of bloke to pick a fight with, by the sounds of it! is this where the white cliffs of Dover are?They're in Kent (and Dover is, incidentally, one of the Cinque Ports http://www.digiserve.com/peter/cinque.htm) - which takes us neatly back to where we started. A lot of chalk makes up the South Coast of England. The South Downs (gentle rolling hills, slightly inland) run down into the sea (heading towards Kent), where they become eroded, and parts fall away, revealing the white chalk beneath. Thus White Cliffs.
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#75613
07/13/2002 1:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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Oh, oh, Shona, I love it! I've never heard of the Cinque Ports...the term, I mean. Here're a couple of things your link says:
The Cinque Ports were first mentioned in a Royal Charter of 1155 and for certain privileges maintained ships that could be called upon by the Crown in times of strife. ...
According to the original Charter, the members of the Cinque Ports had the right to:
"soc and sac, tol and team, bloowit and fledwit, pillory tumbril infangentheof, outfangentheof, mundbryce waives and strays, flotsam and jetsam and ligan".
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#75614
07/14/2002 10:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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soc and sac, tol and team, bloowit and fledwit, pillory tumbril infangentheof, outfangentheof, mundbryce waives and strays, flotsam and jetsam and liganMay as well be Lewis Carroll 
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#75615
07/14/2002 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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Original
Translation
tax and tallage
Exemption from Tax and Tolls
soc and sac
Right to Self Government
tol and team
Permission to Levy Tolls
blodwit and fledwit
Punish people who shed blood or flee from
justice
pillory and tumbril
Punishment for minor offences
infrangentheof and
outfrangentheof
Power to detain and execute felons both inside
and outside the jurisdiction of the port
mundbryce
Punish breaches of the peace
waives and strays
Take ownership of lost and unclaimed goods
after 1 year.
flotsam and jetsam and
ligan
Take ownership of goods thrown overboard or
floating wreckage.
I remember reading somewhere else that "ligan" referred to ship owner being able to claim
merchandise put overboard, but hitched to a mooring.
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#75616
07/15/2002 10:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
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Wow, Dr. Bill--thank you! Where did you find all that?
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#75617
07/16/2002 12:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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Dear Jackie: I didn't give URL as the above list was only pertinent part. http://www.villagenet.co.uk/history/1155-cinqueports.html scroll down half way Actually the phrases and translations were in a chart that did not get reproduced.
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