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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2000
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Jmh - love your repartee. There's nothing better than a quick wit to spice up the day.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2000
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Most dictionaries say "goat's milk", "mare's milk", Cow's milk".....And chevre, is THE french term for cheese made from goat's milk. No need for "fromage de..." merci pour votre question! =)
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I don't know what the policy is on bring up old Qs but here goes...
I have to disagree with doogiecook on his statement that chevre is THE french term for cheese made from goat's milk. CHÈVRE is the actually the definition of a she-goat (bouc is a he-goat). Perhaps when they order the cheese (I see he is a cook) the manufacturers shorten it that way for the U.S. In Québec, by law, we must have both official languages (English & French) on packages. Packages always read as Fromage de chèvre / Goat cheese. If a cook said "donne moi de la chèvre" (give me some goat), he would definitely get meat.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347 |
Don't you just love the way a forum like this gets you thinking about expressions you've used unquestioningly for your whole life?
English appears to have little consistency (so what's new) in the use of the possessive for edible animal products. We say "chicken wings" and "turkey breast" but then "frogs' legs". The only distinction I could come up with, and it's a stretch, is that "chicken" in "chicken wings" is a reference to the meat, not the animal - i.e. wings made of that stuff we call chicken - in the same way as we would say beef steak or mutton backstraps. The word frog - despite the best efforts of the French - has never made the jump to dual usage, so we talk about the legs of the animal. "Lamb's brains" follows the "frog rule" because we don't think of its brain as being made of the meat called lamb. I'm sure that someone will rise to the challenge and find some exceptions.
Well, well. I was about to submit this, but then I thought - what about "chicken liver", "ox tongue" or "kangaroo tail" soup? Never mind, I've done so much work to type this, you may as well read this tripe. Ox tripe?.....ox's tripe?.....oxen's tripe?.....Time for your lie-down, Marty.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 347 |
Hi, it's me again. One or more of the previous posts has got me wondering about use of the possessive in French. My school French is 25 years behind me, and receding fast. Does French insert the definite article - de la (feminine), du (masculine), des (plural), meaning "of the" - or omit it as in the example "fromage de chevre" given previously? I would have thought "chevre fromage" and "fromage-chevre" would make the French wince. And does the context - plant/animal, foodstuff or not, etc - make any difference?
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Yes we are quite sticklers for most rules of grammar. In "Fromage de chèvre" we are saying cheese FROM goat. If I said "de la chèvre" I would be talking about one goat in particular. It also somewhat implies possession of said chèvre. I hope I have the English term correct...DE (feminine) as well as DU (masculine) and DES (both M & F) are prepositions introducing a location, origin (the goat in this case), time, possession, cause etc.
LA (feminine), LE (masculine) are the articles. As I am sure you learned, everything is either masculine of feminine in French. La chaise (chair), le bureau (desk), LES is used to indicate more than one item for both feminine and masculine items.
You are right chèvre fromage is very grating and it makes no difference if it is plant/animal etc. I find we are not too keen on removing excess articles, prepositions et al. That is why the French text on everything is twice as long as the English text. To answer your questions, always include the article & preposition and you will never go wrong.
Geez, this is the first time I have ever talked French grammar for fun. Usually I am correcting label text and arguing about it (verb tenses, of which we have, say, a bazillion, are usually the culprit.) Maybe I'm getting fuddy-duddy without knowing it. I think I'll go wrestle a bear now. Salut!
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Thanks for the refresher, O dragon one.
I'm in the same boat as Marty.
Who won, you or the bear? ;-)
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Not in the least surprised that discussions about food (it being a necessity) draw a large audience, I don't want to miss my cue: Did you ever reflect that, when we use possessive constructions for an animal's meat, there can be no question of possession anymore, because the subject has ceased to exist? The former subjects have been disassembled into their constituent parts, which are treated as matter. The case of milk is different: hence cow s milk. The cow has given her milk. The goat, however, has no cheese to give, the production of goat cheese (which can contain cows milk) is beyond her reach. 
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addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
<chèvre fromage is very grating>
and gratable?
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
>and gratable?<
No, for that it lacks consistency, but it can be gratifying, at least for a thread like the present one.
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