#73617
06/20/2002 2:57 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
In the "Cock-up" thread, dodyskin writes:
I was watching a history programme the other day and a fletcher was demonstrating archery. He asserted that the phrase cock-up came from archery, when the arrow is drawn with the feathers in the wrong position (unsure what that is), misfires and spins away.
- which reminds me of another question I'd been meaning to post here (so many questions, so little time! so many brain cells dying off from being here so late at night!):
Does anyone know what the verb for the art of archery is? "Fletcher" seems to be an alternative word for "archer" but unless I'm much mistaken, fletching means flaying the blubber off a whale carcase...? But we don't talk about archers arching....Is there a verb for the act of archery, or is it just referred to as "shooting arrows"?!
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
|
|
|
#73618
06/20/2002 3:59 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
A fletcher is / was / will haven been (sorry DA) an arrow-maker, I think. The little feathers are called fleche or something in French. ICLIU. Not sure about the verb; maybe bowing. An arrow has three feathers with a 120 degree angle between each. A notch in the tail of the arrow allows it to be placed in the bow two different ways. It should be placed such that the angle, rather than the feather, is on the bow side. IT is certainly plausible that the term "cock-up" could derive from doing this incorrectly.
|
|
|
#73619
06/20/2002 10:34 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
yep, this guy was a fletcher, an arrowsmith.i think it is just shooting is it not? after all we tend to say shooting for guns don't we,gunning isn't used to often.
|
|
|
#73620
06/20/2002 1:07 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
We can trust a man named Fletcher to know what fletching is. It is possible however, that the fletcher did not make the whole arrow, but just did the critical part of applying the feathers, which had to be done with
great skill to have arrow fly right. I suspect "cockup" for wrong position of fletching may be reatively modern.
|
|
|
#73621
06/20/2002 3:06 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
Hi MG, I'm unsure there is a verb for "doing archery", and suspect dody's shooting may be as close as we can get. After all, bows and arrows have been around for a heck of a lot longer than guns, and until guns arrived people wouldn't have had anything else to shoot with. This presupposes that "shoot" predates "gun" of course. I suspect "cockup" for wrong position of fletching may be reatively modernHmmm, not convinced Bill. Many terms from archery are embedded in English from way back, and archery skills were hugely important to the English people. So I think it makes a lot of sense that "cock-up" should refer to an arrow that doesn't fly straight due to being knocked (? think that's the word) incorrectly. This reminds me of the (supposed) origin of the English gesture flicking the V's (aka V-sign, two-fingered salute) amongst English archers during the Hundred Years War: http://st.sebastians.org/Info/FAQs/Longbow.phpSome other interesting archery/longbow stuff on that page. Fisk
|
|
|
#73622
06/20/2002 3:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
The bowstring is placed in the "nock" on trailing edge of arrow. Incidentally, archers often dyed the
fletching with their personal colors to keep others from claiming them. I read a genealogy book by
a learned English clergyman that said an early word for and arrow was "flower", ;from root "flow"
and when victim lay on his back, the arros shaft with gaudy feathers looked like a bouquet, and
that is how we got our word "flower" for pretty blossoms. I haven't been able to find confirmation
of this.
|
|
|
#73623
06/20/2002 5:55 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 39
newbie
|
|
newbie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 39 |
I don't know anything (much) about word derivations, but I know a little about archery (I hunt deer with a bow). I have to question the theory that "cock-up" came from nocking an arrow incorrectly. As was explained by doc_comfort, the feathers (fletches) are arranged in 120-degree increments around the arrow shaft. When you nock an arrow you hold the bow horizontally, and the correct way to position the arrow is with the cock (feather) up. So...with this theory "cock-up" should have come to mean "done correctly"! If you wish to consider the phrase from the vertical bow position, the correct way would be "cock-left" (for a rightie), and the wrong position would be "cock-right." Of course this may all be a bunch of "cock and bull"! [grin]
I don't know a word that means the act of shooting a bow. Does anyone know where the word "nock" came from? Maybe I'll look it up!
Robert
|
|
|
#73624
06/20/2002 6:28 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
erm, would it make a difference what kind of bow he was using, it may have been a crossbow and not a longbow
|
|
|
#73625
06/20/2002 7:55 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear dodyskin: I doubt that a crossbow would be any different. The fletching would still
have to be positioned so that the feathers were not injured.
|
|
|
#73626
06/20/2002 11:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
A fletcher is / was / will haven been (sorry DA) an arrow-maker, I think
You should know.  Think you've missed your calling, Doc? 
|
|
|
#73627
06/21/2002 1:48 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,071 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,071 Likes: 2 |
...fletching means flaying the blubber off a whale carcase...
Not to sidetrack the thread or anything like that, but isn't that "flensing"? with the blubber then rendered in "try pots"? [You don't suppose they were supported on three poles tied together?]
(Moby Dick had that marvelous way of teaching details of whaling technique as a means of pacing the novel...)
|
|
|
#73628
06/21/2002 2:56 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Flensing rings a bell for removal of the whale blubber.
Don't you find it curious, speaking of Melville, that the first line in the novel (i.e., "Call me Ishmael") has a bit of the fish in it?
Boat regards,
WordWhale or just call me "OrdWhael"
|
|
|
#73629
06/21/2002 9:08 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
an early word for and arrow was "flower", ;from root "flow" and when victim lay on his back, the arrows shaft with gaudy feathers looked like a bouquet, and that is how we got our word "flower" for pretty blossomsWell, if it's a myth, it's a good one, Bill It would be great if the original meaning of "bouquet" especially related to the rather gruesome image above. Which would make the word almost enantiodromic.. http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=451
|
|
|
#73630
06/21/2002 9:25 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
the correct way to position the arrow is with the cock (feather) upFascinating stuff, Robert - thanks. I still think that if an archer's shot went awry because of feathers (cocks) being misaligned it may have been called a cocked shot. And perhaps if the shot span upwards (would that be because of the uppermost cock getting caught?) the archer would say the shot had been cocked up. So if you treat "cock" as a (derogatory) verb rather than noun cock-up would be a shortened version of cocked up - and the latter is still in common usage here: "This is really cocked up" = "This is a real cock-up" Total conjecture, but to me this has a real ring of plausibility about it. Which simply means that I like it Fisk
|
|
|
#73631
06/21/2002 3:13 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
isn't that "flensing"?
thanks wofa - I think you're right. Typing the original post, my brain ran away with me again. (that's okay, my brain and I like each other a lot)
Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
|
|
|
#73632
06/21/2002 3:25 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346 |
my brain and I like each other a lotI suspect mine has tired of my company - but it doesn't have the heart to tell me. 
|
|
|
#73633
06/21/2002 3:45 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
but it doesn't have the heart to tell me.That's okay Fishie - I bet your heart wouldn't have a mind to do it....!  Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
|
|
|
#73634
06/22/2002 12:20 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Sad that Jubilee 2000 in the Holy Land amounted to so little.
|
|
|
|
|
