#72921
06/16/2002 7:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#72922
06/16/2002 7:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WW: with respect, don't argue with him Just tell him he is unwecome.;He can't argue with that.
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#72923
06/16/2002 7:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8
stranger
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Wordwind, it is not I who is converting this board from a vehicle for words to a vehicle for spamming ridicule and invective.This is a lie. Keiva made up an on-line name, AphonicRants, as an insulting anagram of a real person's on-line name. One of his earliest posts of AphonicRants, was, at best salacious. http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=66680&page=9&view=collapsed&sb=5 Keiva lied and said he never used doppelganger's , but Aphonic Rants was his doppelganger, and was established before he was banned. http://wordsmith.org/board/showprofile.pl?Cat=&User=AphonicRants& It is poisoning the board -- and it does not come from my mouth.Keiva poisoned the board by threatening individuals in PM's. Keiva poisoned the board by threatening Anu Garg. Keiva threatened to nuke the board.No, the words didn't come from you mouth, but you are responsible for you words.If you want the board to continue as nasty as now, then continue to post as you do above, and continue to interrupt others who are attempting to talk about words. Since when is it nasty to tell the truth? The truth is Keiva, what is nasty, is, when you were banned from this board, you bullied your way back in with threats. Now, that is nasty.As several have stated, telling the truth is a not flaming, nor is it spam. The truth is Keiva, you are a liar, a bully, a source of problems, and Keiva. Let me say it again, in case you haven't yet got the message; Go away, Keiva You are not wanted here.You might try to lie, and bully and blame others, again and again, like a whiny spoiled child. But each time, we will point out, it is you Keiva who are liar, a bully, a whining baby. You can stamp your feet, and lie down and scream, we don't care. We don't want a spoiled baby here.
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#72924
06/16/2002 7:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Phoenix: Please, no rants. Keiva loves them Just short and sweet, and endlessly repeated:
Keiva: Go away. You are not welcome here.
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#72925
06/16/2002 7:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Once again, a word-thread is hijacked by those who insist on converting every discussion to their pet subject.
Bill, once again you are not speaking to the subject of this thread. (#2) Edit: bill's and bel's below, and pheonix's above, also are off the point of the thread. (##4, 5, 14)
Edit: Wordwind, regarding what you say you have "come to believe," see my comment to you in the "calling all ayleurs" thread.
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#72926
06/16/2002 7:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Keiva: Go away. You are not welcome here.
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#72927
06/16/2002 11:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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The person known as Keiva, who recently posted on this thread, was banned for flaming. He forced his way back into this forum by implied threats of legal action against Anu Garg, the founder of AWAD. This same person has also been known to post under the names AphonicRants, KeivaCarpal.
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#72928
06/17/2002 3:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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polskiGuess what, Adam? So am I - by blood (both parents) if not language. Sadly my parents thought there would be little advantage to me in knowing Polish.  However, I could talk for hours about gowompki, cotletti, barsht, wigilia, sczledje, buka, practically any Krakus product you like and especially about wisniowka and sliwowicz  Perhaps save this for PMs unless we can find some English/Polish crossover words. Hmmm.  Oh, but I know the most important word of all - Stolat! FiskP.S. I also note the "=!" rather than "!=" for "not equal to" - is this something to do with Reverse Polish Notation, Adam? No, this isn't a joke, folks - see below:http://www.hpmuseum.org/rpn.htmI'm also old enough to remember early calculators that used RPN!
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#72929
06/17/2002 3:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2002
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Nice to hear polish here:)
But I must say your spelling is not good:)
you mean--> gołąbki, kotlety, barszcz, wigilia, bułka
Sto lat! FishonaBike
When we talk about "!=", I wasn't sure, but I was too lazy to check it out in my C++:)
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#72930
06/17/2002 3:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Fishonabike: I remember my aunt, who was a pediatrician commenting on how
Polish-Americans were very careful to avoid profanity.Sixty years ago sher warned me
not to use the word "kielbasa" because it was a euphemism for penis.
Of course for past twenty years it has been on labels in every supermarket.
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#72931
06/17/2002 3:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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I have never heard about kiłbasa as a penis, but maybe 20 years ago, I am only 17.
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#72932
06/17/2002 3:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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veteran
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gołąbki, kotlety, barszcz, wigilia, bułkaYes, my friend - only heard, hardly ever spelt! Although you'll notice I spelt the forms of alcohol (above) a lot better (but for the lack of a genuine Polish character set). I wonder why? 
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#72933
06/17/2002 3:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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Do you know what do this words mean? I can explain it to you if you want.
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#72934
06/17/2002 3:38 PM
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Posts: 1,346
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"kielbasa" ....a euphemism for penisinnocent bystanders please note that kielbasa is a type of smoked Polish sausage - and very nice it is tooSounds to me like someone's pulling someone's leg here, Bill! I suppose "pork sausage" is an occasional Brit euphemism/innuendo for penis, but that's strictly for belly laughs. Seaside and/or postcard humour, we'd call it. I'll bet that you find the meaning has been attributed the other way around in Polish, as well. Though I could well be wrong.  Adam? Fisk
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#72935
06/17/2002 3:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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Do you know what do this words mean?
Do you mean these words - śliwowica i wiśniówka ?
If so, I most definitely know what they are (and have consumed them very often here in England), although their original meanings may be different from what I think.
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#72936
06/17/2002 3:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 43
newbie
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newbie
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I can't even post a simple "hello"
You can say goodbye and piss off!
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#72937
06/17/2002 3:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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Yes I agree with you kiełbasa is a type of smoked Polish sausage as you said FIOAB.
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#72938
06/17/2002 3:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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I meant gołąbki, kotlety, barszcz, wigilia, bułka. I am sure you know what śliwowica and wiśniówka
mean.
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#72939
06/17/2002 4:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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" can't even post a simple "hello"
You can say goodbye and piss off!"
Dear equalizer: You are doing just what Keiva was banned for.
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#72940
06/17/2002 5:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2002
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Here you are:
śliwowica- comes from "śliwka" which means plum, generally it is vodka made from plums.
wiśniówka- comes from "wiśnia" - cherry, generally vodka made from cherries.
śledź- herring, as you know very good with vodka:)
wigilia- X-mas Eve.
bułka- roll
barszcz- as soup made from beetroot
gołąbki- meat with rise wraped with a cabbage. Funny is that this is a plurar form of "gołąb"- pigeon
kotlety-chop
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#72941
06/17/2002 5:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526
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You can still get new HPs that do RPN. My employer got me one last year that I've decimated. So they bought me a new one this year - a casio that doesn't do RPN.
RPN's nice for the programmer. In fact, when you've got an expression in infix notation (that's the normal, mathematical notation), it can be convenient to immediately convert it to postfix (rpn). You can very easily evaluate a postfix expression with two (or even one) stacks using maybe a few dozen lines of code. I always found it irritating as a user, but back in the day there weren't a lot of options.
I recall when I was in 8th grade my teacher (Mrs Rich) told us that when we went to college, we'd need to have $300 calculators. She couldn't have known that we would have much more powerful calculators at a fraction of the cost.
k
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#72942
06/17/2002 5:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Adam and Fishonabike: How I wish there were some site where pronunication of Polish names and words could be found. I remember reading book by James Michener about Poland, and how the Polish aristocrats abused the peasants. In the beginning an estate named "Lancut" is mentioned. Only halfway through the book did Michener have the owner's wife tell a visitor that it was pronounced "Wine-sooth".
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#72943
06/17/2002 5:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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Dear wwh, I am afraid that there is no such a site. Polish pronunciation is so complicated that it is impossible to write an engine that would pronounce words. What is more, polish internet is not very developed so... You know what I mean.
PS. I'll search something:)
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#72944
06/17/2002 7:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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adam, it is so very delightful to have you here and posting. I am not polish, but grew up in an old polish neighborhood and heard the words frequently. When I was a young married lady, I moved back to the old neighborhood and was again comforted by the words I had heard as a child. It's like a warm blanket wrapped around you! Thank you for giving me something warm today and for bringing a smile to this face.
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#72945
06/18/2002 1:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
veteran
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Polish pronunciation is so complicated that it is impossible to write an engine that would pronounce wordsYes, adam - the real problem for English speakers is that familiar-looking letters are used in very unfamiliar ways. Polish is written down using something between the (errm, correct me if I'm wrong here, someone) Cyrilic and (errm) standard Western alphabet. And quite apart from that, English speakers are hardly consistent within their own alphabet: http://magazine.englishclub.com/199909.htm(namaste to good ol' MaxQ for this one!) Fisk
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#72946
06/18/2002 1:22 PM
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Posts: 1,346
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You can very easily evaluate a postfix expression with two (or even one) stacks using maybe a few dozen lines of codeYou're just a bit clever, aren't you FF? I notice you also talked about AI (Artificial Intelligence) programming elsewhere. Have you ever tried getting computers to handle Natural Language or basic perceptual processing? It's a bloody nightmare, and just fills you with awe as to the stuff that we human beings do without batting an eyelid. Can't beat being given a new appreciation of life, and an enhanced sense of wonder. I sometimes think that's the greatest gift anybody can be given. Fisk
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#72947
06/18/2002 1:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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śliwowica - we call it "plum brandy" rather than vodka. Not sure why. I suppose brandy implies fruit rather than grain as the main ingredient. wiśniówka - yep, cherry vodka! Looove this stuff. Having said which śliwowica is better if you intend to stay up all night. Well, even if you don't intend to, actually  śledź - yep, herrings, which we would call rollmop herrings for some reason (I think because they tend to be rolled, though dunno where the "mop" bit comes from). Their taste is in the same area as strong blue cheese. wigilia - yep, Xmas Eve - when you eat śledź and fish exclusively! The beauty of Xmas to me as a child was that I got the whole Polish thing on wigilia (including opening presents "when you see the first star", meaning after dinner really) and the whole English thing the day after. bułka - ah, here we differ, adam. You think "roll", and I think "cake/very light sponge". I can remember my Mum visiting other Polish friends, and whilst all the kids messed around upstairs they'd have a chat and Kenwood Chef (blender) in constant operation for going on an hour or so. The resulting mix would be baked, resulting in a fantastic buttery/eggy airy spongey bready concoction. Not quite cake, as you could spread it with butter without it being too rich. But a lot more tasty than the tastiest bread. I've never tasted anything else like it really, and suppose I'll always miss it. Mum tells me it takes lots of making barszcz - yep, good ol' polski beetroot soup! Also partaken of at wigilia, occasionally with little pierogi (sp?) dropped in. gołąbki Yep yep - minced meat mixed with rice, wrapped in (outside) cabbage leaves and braised in meaty/tomatoey stock. It's vaguely like the Greek recipe stuffed vine leaves, but a lot nicer. I hated them as a child but love them now kotlety Difference of meaning here, too, adam - my Mum calls Polish hamburgers (minced meat, egg, occasionally onion & garlic, occasionally breadcrumbs) kotlety. Hang on, do you mean "chop" as in the cut of meat, or "chop" as in the verb? Hmmm, overall I'm fairly impressed with how well I've been brought up knowing the important facets of Polish culture! Oh! How could I forget to mention bigos ?? Fisk
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#72948
06/18/2002 2:09 PM
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Posts: 1,526
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You're just a bit clever, aren't you FF?
Well, no. I'm sortuva one act play. I'm familiar with some things because of school, work, interest, or unplanned experience. Most things I'm pretty boneheaded about.
I notice you also talked about AI (Artificial Intelligence) programming elsewhere. Have you ever tried getting computers to handle Natural Language or basic perceptual processing?
Never done the NLP thing, though I have some interest and have done a very little reading. I'm not sure what you mean by "basic perceptual processing." My master's thesis was on neural nets and that was mildly interesting. I was interested in having evolving systems of neural nets (at the time, there weren't more than 1 or two papers on the subject...now there are hundreds). Unfortunately, my thesis director didn't think that was a very interesting subject and so I left off at a silly and very useless tool for experiments. I did do some experiments on my own with evolving systems of competing NNs, where I tried to see if I could observe certain naturally occurring equations (volterra's), but I had no luck in that (and a job offer that took me from away from that interest). I suppose it's just as well. AI doesn't seem to be making many advances. Still, I often look back and wonder how the heck I got to where I am from where I was.
One of my profs was talking a while back and noted that orginally we (computer scientists) thought logic was going to be very difficult to manage, while pattern recognition would be a snap. It's turned out exactly the opposite is true. Logic is very trivial (well, by comparison). It's the pattern matching that's complicated. (In my mind, logic is a special case of pattern matching, but I follow his argument.) I suspect it's mostly fortuitous that our brains can handle things like mathematics in general and logic in particular. (We don't like to think logically - we like to think analogically.) I agree with him that it's the distinguishing things we can eat from things that can eat us where the interesting stuff lies.
k
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#72949
06/18/2002 2:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
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sortuva one act play. I'm familiar with some things because of school, work, interest, or unplanned experience. Most things I'm pretty boneheaded aboutJoin the club, mate. Not many "Renaissance Men" around these days . Mind you, they'd just have so much more they'd have to be good at. it's the distinguishing things we can eat from things that can eat us where the interesting stuff liesLove this. Although I think it's also important distinguishing things we can drink and the types thereof Fisk
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#72950
06/18/2002 3:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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Dear FishonaBike
I can't agree with you more, really!
Your comprehension of bułka just great. You describtion of bułka is excellent! My english isn't so advanced to explain things in a such researched way ( This week I am passing FCE)
But when we talk about kotlety, this word has very broad meaning. What you are describing is kotlet mielony . Generally saying kotlet is a meet prepaired in such a way that looks like a hamburger. It doesn't have to be minced, and it could be a fried chop ( cut of meet).
And, of course, BIGOS. This is too complicated for me to explain it to you, how to make it, but I imagine you know what it is.
Adam
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#72951
06/18/2002 3:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Adam: i grew up in a town with several shoe factories. Many employees were of Polish descent.
They had a custom of raising money for newlyweds by having guests pay for privilege of smashing old dishes and glasses by throwing them into fireplace. Have you ever heard of this custom?
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#72952
06/18/2002 3:35 PM
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Posts: 1,526
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it's the distinguishing things we can eat from things that can eat us where the interesting stuff lies
Just to be clear - that's a very close paraphrase of what my prof said. (I probably should have put quotes around that part.)
k
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#72953
06/18/2002 5:07 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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So, Polish alphabet has nothing to do with Cyrillic. The only differences from "our" and "yours" are added letters (ą,ę,ł,ż,ź,ś,ć), which are characteristic of Polish alphabet, that's all my friend. Of course, they are pronounced differently, because Polish is a Slovian language not as English, celtic(?).
Spanish written down is very similar to Polish. If you know Spanish just imagine that instead of "ch" we have "cz"
and you learn how to pronounce (ą,ę,ł,ż,ź,ś,ć) you can read almost every word! I see that there are some spanish speakers here, they would not have problems with Polish
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#72954
06/18/2002 5:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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You see wwh, Poland have history twice as long as USA. We have so many traditions that it is hard to know them all. Even more, I am from central Poland, I don't know traditions from eastern Poland. We have very nice proverb Co wieś to inna pieśń ( I am sure a half of population of Poland don't (doesn't?) know this one). It means 'other village other song' (more or less).
I must point that "your" custom is very interesting:)
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#72955
06/18/2002 6:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Adam: About a week ago, a contriubutor wanted to know origin of name "Carpathian" (mountains).
I could find nothing. Have you any means of finding out?
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#72956
06/18/2002 7:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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I have all dictionaries of Polish but etymological one. Polish name for Carpathian mountains is just Karpaty , I don't have an idea what is the origin, but maybe karpa , which means tne part of a plant or a tree, that is under ground but not simply the root, it can also mean, that what remains after a tree is torn off and cuted ( this thing with the roots).
I like your question. I must check it at school on friday.
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#72957
06/18/2002 7:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Adam: Perhaps the Polish root you give might mean that the present mountains are just remnants, the roots only, of mountains that many thousands of years were much taller.
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#72958
06/18/2002 10:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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gołąbki Yep yep - minced meat mixed with rice, wrapped in (outside) cabbage leaves and braised in meaty/tomatoey stock. It's vaguely like the Greek recipe stuffed vine leaves, but a lot nicer. I hated them as a child but love them now
Oooo, we call those "cigar au chou" - cabbage cigar. LOVE the stuff.
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#72959
06/18/2002 10:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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gołąbki And my Canadian grandmother just called them Cabbage Rolls an my mother in law called them pigs in the blanket. By the way, I hope that copied Ok. I am not getting the polish letters on my screen: I am getting numbers instead! 
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#72960
06/19/2002 12:57 AM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear belMarduk: Do you know how to make mincemeat? first you have to shoot a mince................
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