#70417
05/18/2002 7:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Zip
Squat
Finig
Nada
Nothing
Zero
How else do we express nothing?
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#70418
05/18/2002 7:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Finig?
Wherefrom did that come?
Zilch
Nichts
Goose egg
Variations on some of yours:
Zippo
Diddley-squat
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#70419
05/18/2002 7:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Finig is a word in another language and so is finnig. But neither means nothing.
I've been using finig to mean nothing for a long time now, and today I learn from Faldage that I've been using a non-existent meaning for the word.
I'm going to submit it to the pseudo-dictionary site and beg them to include it out of pity.
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#70420
05/18/2002 8:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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doodley-squat
--Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Breakfast of Champions
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#70421
05/18/2002 10:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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Posts: 819 |
It seems to my little pea bain that expressing nothing is a logical conundrum. How does one express if one doesn't express something? But, then, Hamlet's words come to mind:"...A sound made by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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#70422
05/18/2002 10:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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I have a note in my JDR® that says we know more about nothing than we do about everything. Has a barely legible reference to Scientific American scribbled in the lower left hand corner.
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#70423
05/18/2002 10:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
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member
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One must be able to express nothing, in order to have a contrast when one expresses something.
The introduction of the concept of zero was a crucial one in terms of advancing mathematics.. interestingly, the ancient Greeks almost certainly didn't think of it. The Mayans and the Indians did, though [independently]
alexis
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#70424
05/18/2002 10:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I have a book somewhere about the zero and the effect of its introduction to western society. Fittingly it has a chapter Zero.
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#70425
05/18/2002 10:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
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member
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There's a fair bit about zero in a book I just finished, "The Calendar". You sort of need zero for decimals, and when you want to say that the year is 365.2564 days long [the sidereal year, that is, in the year 2000] it gets unwieldy without decimals!
We seem to have something of a paucity of nothing-expressions so far.
alexis
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#70426
05/18/2002 10:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fittingly it has a chapter Zero.Faldage
...and is the chapter a blank page?
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#70427
05/19/2002 12:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
One must be able to express nothing, in order to have a contrast when one expresses something. - AlexisI knew it! I knew it! I knew it! Alexis! You are a man! 
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#70428
05/19/2002 12:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,071 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Let's try not to confuse ourselves in our discussion about nothing by neglecting the difference between "zero" and "null" - it's easy to mean either one when we use the unspecified word "nothing."
(All null sets are identical - almost the fundamental principle underlying all of number theory...)
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#70429
05/19/2002 2:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Hamlet's words come to mind:"...A sound made by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Oops! This one's not Hamlet, but Macbeth, who, in his great "Tomorrow and tomorrow" speech, calls life "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." It's The Bard, so we gotta keep it straight.This whole soliloquy is IMHO a most powerful expression of nihilism.
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#70430
05/19/2002 2:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
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Posts: 872 |
Slithy, cool one, no matter that the Bard's simpled-minded
pleasant-sounded construction might have have been nice when he was here, but now, you are here, you live, you love - forgive me, I think that you have a damn good mind, so stop your basting in the sun of your peers.
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#70431
05/19/2002 3:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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#70432
05/19/2002 4:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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> Huh?
Don't go there, slithy, he said nix, it was the moonshine talking! ;)
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#70433
05/19/2002 4:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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> How else do we express nothing?
You can't teach a Yorkshireman nowt!
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#70434
05/19/2002 4:48 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
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well, this is certainly much ado about nothing! is nothing sacred?! here then are some others that are good-for-nothing:
naught and aught,
cipher,
nil,
goose-egg,
blank,
and last (and least) bugger-all
p.s. - you're right about milum, mav -- he's definitely a perpilocutionist.
()
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#70435
05/19/2002 11:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>How else do we express nothing?
"Nothingness in the Eastern languages is no-thingness. We in the West think of nothingness as a void, an emptiness, a nonexistence. In Eastern philosophy and modern physical science, nothingness - no thingness - is a form of process, ever moving....
When we work in therapy, we always come across no-thingness, and we see that this no-thingness is some very alive process. ... in order to bring things back to life, we have to change them back to process again."
F. S. Perls
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#70436
05/19/2002 12:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Here's something from the Internet that touches on nothingness and defining it v. somethingness: "The problems considered in epistemology are: Is genuine knowledge attainable at all? Is the skeptic right? What are the limits of knowledge? From what faculties of the mind does knowledge originate? Which method should be used to obtain valid knowledge? How do you justify a priori statements? Where is the boundary between the subjective and objective factors? What is the nature of truth? SKEPTICISM This is the view that questions whether valid or reliable knowledge is ever attainable by a human being. Some skeptics stated that nothing can be known. Other skeptics stated that they did not know whether knowledge was possible; they suspended judgment on the issue. Some of the common examples used by skeptics are the illusions and deceptions of our senses. Others point to the complexity of any experience and ask how you can know what is the essence or real nature of the things you are experiencing." http://www.philosophyclass.com/epistemology.htm The question of the senses--how we come to reality through our senses when our senses receive limited and often misconstrued information--presents the problem of what you think you perceive may be a different thing altogether from what I perceive. Take different accounts of an automobile accident witnessed by different people, for example. Take any slice of life witnessed by different people... That gets into the idea of communication and scaffoding of ideas. Through the back and forth interchange of ideas, we may come closer to understanding each other. The most interesting part of scaffolding (and I've forgotten the philosopher's name who introduced the concept, but may be able to find it today unless someone else knows it) is that of the comprehension of the book an author has written for his/her conceived audience plus the audience of self. But in later times, the book read will be received in a different way because the understanding itself--with its culture, different history, different experiences--will be limited in some ways by not being of the time the work was written, but expanded in others because of new concepts, understandings, and information not known to the author. There were numerous "The Author in His Time" courses offered when I was in graduate school as an attempt to put students into the period of writing so we could make some sort of attempt to understand better the context of the writing. And another part of scaffolding was the interchange of information and ideas among people discussing and writing about the work. What you bring to my understanding affects my understanding, as mine could yours. But the idea of the work we separately hold in our heads is finally different from each other's, no matter how much we talk or write to each other. Still, there is something to be gained usually from these interchanges. And, yeah, nothing can come out of such exchanges, if I believe you're dead wrong or vice versa. Well, maybe not. You may gain the idea that I'm dead wrong, and that in itself is another idea and something beyond nothing. I've had the interesting experience of sharing my poetry with people who have seen things in the poem I never intended to be there, but I've been delighted to read the poems through their eyes. And I've gained something valuable in hearing what they saw--and even have wondered was "it" was there all the time--coming from a repressed or suppressed area in my brain. This experience is scaffolding at its best. Comment on aught: I never knew that meant nothing. Something new here. Best regards, WW
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#70437
05/19/2002 1:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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On NOTHINGNESS
Alan Watts
"The idea of nothing has bugged people for centuries, especially in the Western world. We have a saying in Latin, Ex nihilo nuhil fit, which means "out of nothing comes nothing." It has occurred to me that this is a fallacy of tremendous proportions. It lies at the root of all our common sense, not only in the West, but in many parts of the East as well. It manifests in a kind of terror of nothing, a put-down on nothing, and a put-down on everything associated with nothing, such as sleep, passivity, rest, and even the feminine principles. But to me nothing -- the negative, the empty -- is exceedingly powerful. I would say, on the contrary, you can't have something without nothing. Imagine nothing but space, going on and on, with nothing in it forever. But there you are imagining it, and you are something in it. The whole idea of there being only space, and nothing else at all, is not only inconceivable but perfectly meaningless, because we always know what we mean by contrast."
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#70438
05/19/2002 3:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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i have always thought nowt was just an alternate spelling (matching pronounciation) of naught. Is it ever written/spelled nowt?
my parent said naught and used naught (especially for zero,) gnaw't-- it not far from that to nowt.
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#70439
05/19/2002 6:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
"There is nothing between me and Willow. Okay? Nothing. Bupkiss.
Goose egg. Snake eyes. Othing-nay." I always thought of "bupkiss" as an Italian-by-way-of-New-Jersey sounding word, but it seems to be a Yiddish expression for "nothing," with variant spelling from the word for "beans." See http://www.lizzie.net/html/yiddish.htm or http://members.rotfl.com/cookie4/yiddish.html
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#70440
05/19/2002 6:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Bupkiss? Beans?
I don't know beans.
Seems we've discussed that here a while back. Beans got a bum rap, huh?
And, speaking of, wonder where bum rap came from? That's probably a YART, too.
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#70441
05/19/2002 9:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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"bupkiss" a Yiddish expression for "nothing," with variant spelling from the word for "beans."For and extend discussion of bubkes (much ado about "nothing") see http://www.wordwizard.com/clubhouse/founddiscuss.asp?Num=738Bubkes: From the Russian word for beans (and, say some sources, the Yiddish for "goat turd"). Something worthless as against expectations, as in, "I worked on it for three hours –- and what did he give me? Bubkes!"
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#70442
05/19/2002 11:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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"Now there were exceptions to what we have just stated. The exceptions were the mathematicians who were involved in recording
astronomical data. Here we find the first use of the symbol which we recognise today as the notation for zero, for Greek
astronomers began to use the symbol O. There are many theories why this particular notation was used. Some historians favour
the explanation that it is omicron, the first letter of theGreek word for nothing namely "ouden". Neugebauer, however, dismisses
this explanation since the Greeks already used omicron as a number - it represented 70 (the Greek number system was based on
their alphabet). Other explanations offered include the fact that it stands for "obol", a coin of almost no value, and that it arises
when counters were used for counting on a sand board. The suggestion here is that when a counter was removed to leave an
empty column it left a depression in the sand which looked like O.
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#70443
05/20/2002 11:17 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
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member
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Nothing to do with nothing, but I just thought I'd like to point out to people that when Milo said
I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! Alexis! You are a man!
he didn't actually mean that I'm a man... because/and I'm not... however, I am now a journeyman =]
alexis
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#70444
05/20/2002 12:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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And we knew you were a woman--that is, those of us who read your profile!!
milum is the funnest one here (I've thunk at times) when it comes to wild enthusiasms and exaggerations for rhetorical effect. His is the art (sometimes) of Risible Rhetoric.
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#70445
05/20/2002 1:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets
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#70446
05/20/2002 4:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
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"There is nothing between me and Willow. Okay? Nothing. Bupkiss. Goose egg. Snake eyes. Othing-nay."
Does "snake eyes" mean nothing to y'all? I thought it was when you roll the dice in craps (or other games of two little numbered cubes) and get two ones (the opposite of "box cars," when you get two sixes). So a numerical rendering of the above statement might read:
"There is nothing between me and Willow. Okay? 0. 0. 0. 2. 0."
Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. (except that I did once have a girlfriend named Willow and that string of numbers kind of sums the relationship up pretty well - ah, the choices we make when we're young...)
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#70447
05/20/2002 5:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Does "snake eyes" mean nothing to y'all?
A) It's the lowest possible roll.
2) It's an automatic loss if rolled on the first roll.
Þ) It does seem a little out of place. Where'd that snake-eyes quote come from, anyway?
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#70448
05/20/2002 5:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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How else do we express nothing?
Since zed is somewhat akin, and seen already seen zilch,
would our Aussie's suggest that by combining zilch and zed, we get Zild?
[running for cover -e]
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#70449
05/20/2002 5:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A little boy at the Zoo looking at an elephant, pointed and said:"What's that?" His mother said:"That's his tail." The little boy said:"Not his tail, what that in front of it?" His mother said:"Oh, that's nothing."
The elephant's attendant said:"My, ma'am, but you're blasé!"
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#70450
05/20/2002 6:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
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member
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Posts: 170 |
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#70451
05/20/2002 6:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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No need to google your Shakespeare,
For we now have our SilkMuse here
To immunize us from confusion
And state precisely each allusion.
[bowing low -e]
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#70452
05/20/2002 7:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184
member
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member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 184 |
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#70453
05/20/2002 7:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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How's about nothing in terms of finances?
tapped out
tap city
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#70454
05/20/2002 7:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
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From William Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice" Act one, Scene one:
BASSANIO speaks:
Gratiano speaks an infinite deal of nothing, more
than any man in all Venice. His reasons are as two
grains of wheat hid in two bushels of chaff: you
shall seek all day ere you find them, and when you
have them, they are not worth the search.
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#70455
05/20/2002 8:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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ewein writes:
How's about nothing in terms of finances?
"I'm broke", or as the commercial says, "nut 'n, honey"
Have we covered I'm busted?
Oh, we ain't got a barrel of money,
we may ragged and funny,
but we'll travel along,
singing this song,
side by side
...just felt like remembering something that gives a lilt to being penniless. Hey! That's busted, too!
Broke regards,
WordWasted
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#70456
05/20/2002 8:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Helllllllllllllll-oooooooooooooooooo!?
Slithy Toves way up there already reminded poor ol' Geoff that the line was from Macbeth and not from Hamlet. Sheesh!
Bard regards,
WW
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