#69847
05/14/2002 1:46 PM
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Well, I've just read something that was news to me and showed, once again, how sadly gapped has been my sometimes rocky education. Read below what I read and let me know whether you were taught this and whether you apply the rule consistently. It is great fun learning distinctions: Verse
Verse has two meanings in literary discussions, neither of which is the most familiar use outside English departments.
Although "verse" is used in the real world to name a group of lines in a song (as in "Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Verse, Chorus"), in poetry it means "single line." A group of verses is called a stanza or a verse paragraph. You'll impress English teachers by using the terms precisely.http://newark.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Terms/verse.htmlBook regards, WordWinner
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#69848
05/14/2002 1:58 PM
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Dear WW: "verse" came from a root meaning turning. Remember "boustrophedon"?
Always in this life, the versed is yet to come.
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#69849
05/14/2002 2:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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the versed is yet to come.
It might be said of Elizabethan England that [clearing throat -e]
It was the times of Bess; it was the times of verse.
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#69850
05/14/2002 2:28 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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Well, we did that poll on another thread regarding how we pronounce valet.
I propose we have a poll here on this thread regarding how many of us normally refer to one line of poetry as a verse. I'd never heard this distinction, even among English teachers I've known, till today.
So, I'll start the poll.
Verse = 1 line of poetry = yes, I speak this way.
Verse = 1 line of poetry = no, I never refer to single lines of poetry this way.
I'm a "no" (till today, that is--I do like precise speech when possible)
Beat regards,
Wordwon
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#69851
05/14/2002 3:13 PM
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Verse = 1 line of poetry = no, I never refer to single lines of poetry this way.
And I don't intend to start now. If you're interested in precise speech you could easy do better than using a word with multiple meanings in a sense that is probably one of the top two senses that people would not assume. If you mean a single line of poetry say "a single line of poetry".
folding up soap box and silently fading away
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#69852
05/14/2002 3:24 PM
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Dear Faldage: the etymology strongly suggests that one turn of the ox made a line, and one verse.
But I have never heard it used this way. But I think it is an ancient error to equate "verse" with "stanza".
Stanza
n.
5It, lit., stopping place, room < VL *stantia: see STANCE6 a group of lines of verse forming one of the divisions of a poem or song: it is usually made up of four or more lines and often has a regular pattern in the number of lines and the arrangement of meter and rhyme
stan[za$ic 73za4ik8
adj.
S
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#69853
05/14/2002 3:32 PM
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the etymology strongly suggests that one turn of the ox made a line, and one verse.
And silly means blessed.
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#69854
05/14/2002 3:37 PM
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#69855
05/14/2002 3:43 PM
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Faldage writes:
And I don't intend to start now.
And I'm with you, Faldage. However, if I were writing a formal paragraph in which I was referring to lines of poetry (and I do think "line of poetry" is very clear), I would think twice about whether I should (or even could) safely use the term "verse" to mean a line. This could be an example of a term that is becoming obsolete--much in the way I think the term "lyric" for the words in a song, most calling them lyrics, is becoming obsolete. I can't begin to recount the number of literature classes I've taken along the way, and I cannot think of a single prof who referred to a line of poetry as a single verse.
On a tangent, but related, I heard a very well-educated and accomplished conductor scold a youth orchestra musician for referring to a staff as a line. The youth had asked about a measure on, say, "The third line." The conductor scolded, "Lines appear on the staff. What you meant to ask m about was the measure on the third staff." This is another case of an educated person being very precise, yet the rest of the world referring to lines of music and easily understanding each other to mean staves. "Hey, drop down to the fourth line and begin practicing at the phrase beginning at the third measure!" I don't think there's anybody who'd have trouble knowing that the fourth line was the fourth staff on the page. I do teach my kids at school to refer to staves on a page as "the first staff," "the second staff," etc., and I also let them know that many musicians will refer to the same as "lines" of music. And I also tell them the story of the conductor who scolded the student musician for using "line" for "staff." May as well equip them for whatever comes their way.
Beat regards,
WW
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#69856
05/14/2002 3:50 PM
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Four turns equalling one verse is another example of inexorable inflation.
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#69857
05/14/2002 3:56 PM
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enthusiast
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I recall reading about someone--Rimbaud, I think--who went from bed to verse. 
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#69858
05/14/2002 3:56 PM
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In poetry , no, but in other things, scripture, yes, Chapter and verse -- were verse was a single sentence, or sometimes just half of a compound sentence.
i think of a verse in poety as a logical group (most often set apart by the poet.. and use line numbers, (line 15 and 16 (since they are often provided.) i have never thought of a line as a verse.
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#69859
05/14/2002 4:31 PM
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I'd never heard that usage either,that I recall, WW, but I just found out it's the first def. given in Atomica.
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#69860
05/14/2002 4:47 PM
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Don't forget his son Jason.
TEd
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#69861
05/14/2002 4:54 PM
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Ok, Tedster, I'll bite: why shouldn't we forget Jason?
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#69862
05/14/2002 6:54 PM
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'cause he was always Jason Rimbaud
TEd
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#69863
05/14/2002 6:59 PM
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Usually I get your puns, TEd. Sometimes (well, once anyway) the lead in story is good enough in its own right for me to forgive you.
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#69864
05/14/2002 7:13 PM
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Who was chasing Rambo? I thought Rambo did all the chasing.
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#69865
05/14/2002 11:45 PM
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I'd like to declare that this here poll went belly-up.
Special note to Max: If you read here, please notice that I responded to the poll topic and not to the Rimbaud one. I am determined to get this response thang straight. Keep the faith! If Wordwind can get it straight, anyone can!
Best regards,
WW
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#69866
05/15/2002 12:09 AM
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Posts: 13,858
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If anybody can foul things up, I can. And inadvertly do, alas.
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#69867
05/15/2002 1:19 AM
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#69868
05/15/2002 8:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 148
member
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This poll fills me with interest, as I have always referred to a line of poetry as a verse, ever since my English teacher told me to anyway! That was in Aus, so I don't know whether this is a US versus everyone else thing (hey, that links to a topic somewhere else... words not to be confused...)
alexis
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#69869
05/15/2002 11:28 AM
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I don't know whether this is a US versus everyone else thing Well, Alexis (I like your name, by the way), it sounds to me as though it's Australia verses everyone else... 
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#69870
05/15/2002 5:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
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I grow tired of agreeing with everything wordwind sez. But I learned in Assertive Training Class to choose my point of disagreement carefully, and this is not it. The windywench is right again. I vote no. Oh dear me I'm not being assertive am I? nonono nonono nono
no no no no no
no no no no no
no no no no no
no no no no no
no no no no no
no no no no no
no no no no no
nonono nononono nono
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#69871
05/15/2002 6:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
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Fear not. MaxwellQ's spleen-filled identical twin, MaximilianQ, has been taken out and shot.
Woe, woe. Do I have a funeral to go to?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#69872
05/15/2002 9:44 PM
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WW got me looking up stuff about Romance and Roses, so I took a look at Le Roman de la Rose.
Slow going. But in several places it made it very clear that un vers = one line. But what do the French know
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#69873
05/16/2002 7:25 AM
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member
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>it sounds to me as though it's Australia verses everyone else - Jackie
I think Aus is quite happy to take on everyone else... at last in cricket and swimming... might as well add poetry words to the list!
alexis
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#69874
05/16/2002 1:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 322
enthusiast
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You beat me to it, wwh - I was going to reminisce about my French lit classes, when we would analyze each 'vers' (line). Out of curiosity, I looked up 'vers' in my Robert-Collins. The English translation given for singular vers is LINE, and for plural vers is VERSE.
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#69875
05/17/2002 11:11 PM
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wwh writes Always in this life, the versed is yet to come - more literally than you intended, perhaps.
Versed (TM) (pronounced ver'-sed) is also an ultra-short-acting sedative/amnesia-inducing agent (midazolam HCl) - which would make the blue statment a truism: we shall all sleep...
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