#69825
05/13/2002 3:06 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Saw Monsoon wedding over the weekend - absolutely beautiful movie, with great music. I really enjoyed the mix of English and Hindi in the character's speech, used completely interchangeably, as they went back and forth between the two languages within a single sentence.
It reminded me of the Spanglish I hear all the time, and of Franglais, and I was wondering if anyone knows a term for this particular mix? It seems it must exist, given the millions of people that speak both languages, but if it doesn't, let's make up one better than my proposal.
|
|
|
#69826
05/13/2002 6:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
a term for this particular mix?
I believe it is usually referrd to as code-switching. Although it indicates a deep famliarity with at least two languages, it is regarded by some as linguistic laziness, choosing the easier route when faced with a terminology problem. Conversely it could easily be considered a simple matter of choosing the best word for a situation.
|
|
|
#69827
05/13/2002 6:43 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170 |
|
|
|
#69828
05/13/2002 6:44 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
I believe it is usually referrd to as code-switching
I wasn't looking so much for a generic term for this backing-and-forthing as for a specific term for the mix of Hindi and English. I have Hispanic friends who call the language mix they speak "Spanglish." I just can't imagine that the Indians call it "code-switching" - but that ain't what you meant either.
I can see the argument for calling it laziness, but I see it also as inventing a whole new language as one goes along, with a certain set of tools at hand. Personally, I find it fascinating to listen to, and occasionally hear things expressed in Spanglish much more colorfully, or powerfully, or succinctly than either language alone could do. It's also fun.
|
|
|
#69829
05/13/2002 6:45 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
Hinglish
Thank you, SilkM - I like it.
|
|
|
#69830
05/13/2002 6:53 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Merchant and Ivory, better known for their period drama's (ie, Howard'd End, etc) did one of their first films on the Indian movie business.. long, long ago.. even before Shakespear Walla, which was set in early post colonial india.
for while, these movies were broadcast on a local UHF station prime time on saturday night, and i would some time watch them.. they are funny and intestign, and better than mexican soap operas.. they are most definately better after a few drinks..
|
|
|
#69831
05/13/2002 6:57 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I think what you've got to realise is that in India English actually provides the grease that oils the wheels between areas that speak completely different languages. It is (or was, anyway) the officialese language. I know they were thinking about making Hindi the official language but the body count would be massive if they tried to enforce it.
Indians think nothing of intermixing their own language plus English, and they do it so seamlessly that even when they are talking among themselves they don't even notice when they do it. I have a bunch of contractor from India working across the cube farm from me. One is Sri Lankan (from Tamil Nahdu, though), one is from Madras and the others are from northern India. They don't have a single language in common except English - of a sort. When they speak it among themselves it is virtually impossible to understand. They have to change mental gears to talk to us. They slow down and they consciously add back in all the parts of speech they don't bother themselves with when they are talking to each other.
The thing that really bugs me is the shaking of the head to signify agreement.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
#69832
05/13/2002 8:10 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I ran into something similar. In Ireland I'd be walking into a pub (not, you understand, that I spent a lot of time in pubs, this is just an example!) and a man coming out would meet my eye and shake his head from side to side.
At first I thought it was a silent comment on my dress (bike shorts) or my beard, but eventually I figured out it was the equivalent of a greeting head nod.
TEd
|
|
|
#69833
05/13/2002 10:27 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
At first I thought it was a silent comment on my dress (bike shorts) or my beard Mebee you were right the first time ... tell me more about the bicycle shorts 
|
|
|
#69834
05/14/2002 2:47 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
Hinglish
This is a fairly common variation... In Singapore it's called 'Singlish' (which could potentially contain blends from the four major language groups in that area - English, Chinese - covering any of the major dialects, Hindi and Malay). I'm not sure but I think Malaysia has the same thing, called (you guessed it)  'Minglish' - JessCC might be able to confirm that. Are you there, JessCC?
|
|
|
#69835
05/14/2002 4:01 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
tell me more about the bicycle shorts
And, TEd, are you gonna tell us the one about the bike shorts and the potato? (You DO have it in your vast repertoire, don't you?
|
|
|
#69836
05/14/2002 4:52 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Lycra. That's all I'm gonna say.
TEd
|
|
|
#69837
05/14/2002 4:52 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I think that particular potato may have been cooked with a piece of cod.
TEd
|
|
|
#69838
05/14/2002 8:26 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
I can see the argument for calling it laziness, but I see it also as inventing a whole new language as one goes along, with a certain set of tools at hand. Personally, I find it fascinating to listen to, and occasionally hear things expressed in Spanglish much more colorfully, or powerfully, or succinctly than either language alone could do. It's also fun.
I am very familiar with Spanglish and as you say, it is fun. It is also much more than that. When two cultures meld, there are experiences in each culture that have no easy word groupings to describe them in the other language. It isn't a question of laziness, but of being precise in the wording. It is such a relief when one is talking to someone of a similar mixed culture to use the proper words to describe each situation and know that you are perfectly understood.
|
|
|
#69839
05/14/2002 11:30 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
> also much more than that
I agree Connie - there is also much documented literature on code-switching that demonstrates it gives multilingual speakers many opportunities for refining and defining their own lexicon (and hence their personal positioning) in relation to different cultural norms and centres of power.
|
|
|
|
|
