#69499
05/12/2002 1:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Elsewhere, dr. bill used the term "procrustean bed". His usage seemed inaccurate to me, and upon looking it up I discovered that my own usage was also somewhat inaccurate.
But more interestingly, the various dictionaries I checked differ from each other -- and even a single dictionary may be inconsistent between "procrustean" and "procrustean bed". In fact, bartleby.com differs from my recent bricks-and-mortar AHD. The differences are nuances, but ones that strike me as important nuances.
Which leads me to the question: how do our board participants understand these terms (without looking them up, which would of course prejudice the responses).
(Note: I'm not asking for the etymology. Current meaning may not track etymology, and I suspect the etymology is familiar to anyone who uses the terms themselves.)
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#69500
05/12/2002 3:02 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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A procrustean is a person who eats the entire slice, including the browned, chewier parts around the outside. A procrustean bed is the sleeping pad of a person who eats the slice, usually toasted, before arising in the morning, often leaving procrumbean bits behind.
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#69501
05/12/2002 3:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872 |
often leaving procrumbean bits behind. - the good Father Steve.
Ah, a good Father who returns from his honeymoon no wiser but still with his humor intact. Ah, a rare but suspectable bird indeed. () (used with permission).
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#69502
05/12/2002 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Somebody did a hell of a lot of stretching to get Elvis the Pelvis onto the list.
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#69503
05/12/2002 2:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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A procrustean is a person who eats the entire slice, including the browned, chewier parts around the outside.Nah, that's a concrustian. Procrustian, in modern parlance, deals with marketing. Everybody's gotta fit the same pattern, and/or be sold the same package deal, and they've cut off our heads to make it work. 
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#69504
05/12/2002 2:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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There are, of course, those who insist on only the very best, which persons might be described as uppercrustean.
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#69505
05/12/2002 2:53 PM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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And many children will eat no crusts at all. They are centrists.
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#69506
05/12/2002 9:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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There are, of course, those who insist on only the very best, which persons might be described as
uppercrustean.
And when those same patricians eat lobster they're uppercrustacean.
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#69507
05/13/2002 2:03 AM
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Posts: 2,788
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Silly Geoff. Everyone who knows anything about world geography knows that Upper Crustacea is a small province of Greece, up the Struma River, north of the Aegean Sea, known for its many deposits of limestone, left when it was part of the bottom of the sea.
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#69508
05/13/2002 2:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Bill, my granddaughter doesn't eat the crusts of bread, either -- she eats only the crumb, as she will tell you. I don't really know where a 3 yr. old learned this archaic but correct word, but I can guess.
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#69509
05/13/2002 4:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
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Silly Geoff.
Thank you, sir. I do my best. Now, is Upper Crustacea adjacent (just south of) Mastodonia, the land from which Philip of Mastodon brought the large beasts later used by Alexander the Grape? I know it has no relationship whatsoever to Upper Volta, which is a shockingly small country in West Africa.
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#69510
05/13/2002 4:58 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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I am still waiting for Megawati Soekarnoputri (President of Indonesia) to visit Upper Volta.
Bingley
Bingley
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#69511
05/13/2002 12:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#69512
05/13/2002 1:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
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member
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#69513
05/13/2002 2:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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and that Pi-crustean, does it have an Upper crust on? or is it an Open Pi-crustean?
personally, i am rather Pro crumb-crust on, when it comes to pie!
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#69514
05/13/2002 2:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
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Megawati Soekarnoputri to visit Upper Volta
Where she will, no doubt, be involved in current affairs.
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#69515
05/13/2002 5:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Megawati Soekarnoputri to visit Upper Volta
Where she will, no doubt, be involved in current affairs.
WATT?
Which was the caption on a political cartoon some years ago of what critters in the wild said when told of Nixon's new Secretary of the Interior.
And this reminds me of an old game, one which we should perhaps make into a thread of its own. It is called 9W. Invented, if I recall correctly by Johnnie Carson. In the format of Jeopardy, where someone gives a word and the others respond with questions that the word would be a logical answer for.
9W
Do you spell your name with a V, Herr Vagner?
or
Shogun:
How do you get fast service in a bank?
TEd
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#69516
05/14/2002 1:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
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Upon re-visiting Upper Volta, one might find it re-Volting. And having established the circumference and
formula of its pastry shells, one becomes Pi-Crustean.
And we know that the crust is cooked in an equal sided container, since pie are squared. Now, do the residents of Ms. Megawatti's country wear turbines on their heads? I would presume that being around such magnetic personalities would leave one in a state of constant flux. (Opportunity here for the North Poles and the South Poles to come charging in)
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#69517
05/14/2002 7:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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I appear to have led a movement which trashed AphonicRants' perfectly reasonable, sensible and serious inquiry. Bad vicar! Sorry, chum.
Father Steve
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#69518
05/14/2002 7:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Father Steve: we are all so glad to see you posting again, you could not possibly offend. I'm sure AR will agree with me.
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#69519
05/14/2002 7:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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perfectly reasonable, sensible and serious inquiry
Procrustean refers to the time period before the Earth's crust formed from the cooling of the surface of the liquid mass that was the early Earth. The Procrustean bed is the top of the liquid core of the Earth directly beneath the crust.
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#69520
05/14/2002 7:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
member
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member
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#69521
05/14/2002 7:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear SM: If you grow up to be a frog, I hope a genuine Prince kisses you.
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#69522
05/14/2002 9:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200 |
Dear Father Steve: we are all so glad to see you posting again, you could not possibly offend.Quite right, dr. bill. Father, we have been too long evicarated, and if my poor thread can be credited with inducing your return, then it is a tremendous success!  [buy you a beer? -e]
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#69523
05/15/2002 12:15 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Procrushtian Bed:
Otherwise known at the Iron Maiden.
Beat regards,
WordWarbucks Do you have any idea how the lyrics--lyric for purists--of "It's a Hard-Knock Life" sung a hundred times this week in rehearsal for the show tomorrow night can crush your head like a walnut!!?? I live (barely) to tell the tale...
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#69524
05/15/2002 12:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
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Do you have any idea how the lyrics--lyric for purists--of "It's a Hard-Knock Life" sung a
hundred times this week in rehearsal for the show tomorrow night can crush your head like a walnut!!??
Well, my nut-brained friend, you have no doubt noticed, just by pecan into one, that a walnut looks an awful lot like a cerebrum! Even has a corpus callosum.
Goober pea-brained Geoff
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#69525
05/15/2002 12:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Bad vicar!
Ah, the acrid, but also palliative emissions of Vicar's Vapo-Rub!
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#69526
05/15/2002 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
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I always wondered how Procrustes went about stretching wimps six feet tall. I wonder if the mechanics of the rack and pinion were known in his day. I have seen pictures of a mechanical computer of amazing complexity recovered from an ancient wreck. But I have never seen any indication that the Greeks that early having anything with gears or screws. Let's hear some theories.
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#69527
05/15/2002 12:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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I've thought for a long time that shelled pecan meat looks like a brain, but this spring I also noticed that shelled pecans look like baseball mitts.
Not sure how I can fit these observations into the Variations on a Theme....
Bat regards,
WordWalnut
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#69528
05/15/2002 10:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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never seen any indication that the Greeks that early having anything with gears or screwsArchimedes had a screw. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/a/archimscr.asp
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#69529
05/15/2002 1:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Faldage: Half the Greek population did too, and many of them. But I was talking about the age of mythology, when Procrustes was redimensioning travellers.
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#69530
05/15/2002 4:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2000
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Bill - you may have seen this already, but AHD gives the etymology of this word as:
from Latin Procrustes, from Greek Prokrousts,from prokrouein, hammer out, to stretch out : pro-, forth; see pro–2 + krouein, to beat.
So, as odd as it sounds, it appears that Proctrustes method may have been more like flattening and rolling out dough, or even pounding out a soft metal, rather than stretching with a screw-driven rack.
On the whole Archimedes question, I recently read One Good Turn: A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw (I swear, I do have a life) by the vowel-deprived Witold Rybczynski. It's a short, interesting book about the provenance of these two items, which the author views as the most important tools to have appeared in the last millennium. I guess there were screw-threaded devices before then, like Archimedes' water-lifter, and others for pressing olive oil, but they don't go back much further than Archimedes. Which bears out Bill's point that there was no screwing around during the actual® life time of the mythical Procrustes.
p.s. - in thinking about it - you don't need a screw for a rack, just a wheel, around which a cable or chain could be tightened, and some sort of peg or ratchet to hold the wheel in position. Time to stop designing torture devices in my head now...
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#69531
05/15/2002 6:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear :Hyla: Nice informative post, thank you. I didn't know where to look for etymology of Procrustes' name.
But flesh not being malleable, a tensioning device would be needed. There is a primitive way called a "Spanish windlass", an English mockery of Spanish seamanship, that involved tying a loop around two fixed points, and the passing a bar between them and twisting the ropes to tighten them.
You also reminded me of the legend of Pythagorus' getting rich by achieving a corner on olive oil presses. But Procrustes belonged to the much earlier age of mythology.
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