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I not sure if it's really the opposite, but what is the proper word to describe the type of poetic, hypothetical abstraction that follows?

"If I were a dead leaf thou mightest bear"


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Dear BY: the closest I can come is transmutation, and that's not very good.


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the proper word to describe the type of poetic, hypothetical abstraction that follows?

I'd like to offer incomprehensible.


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Thanks Vlad!
Are you talking about my (confessedly) weird description of the technique used in the line, or Shelley's line itself?


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the original Shelley


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Is this anastrophe? (parsing...)


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Personification would be ascribing human characteristics to the leaf. This is ascribing leaf characteristics to the human. That what you're looking for, by?


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Pour Bill: Cheers. Transmutation is pretty much on par with 'transformation' too. I actually think there is a word for a human turning into or described as an inanimate or abstract object though. Any ideas


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I actually think there is a word for a human turning into an inanimate or abstract object though. Any ideas? - bellyouth

the secret word is TRANSFIGURATION is the secret word


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Not to sound flippant, but it seems "depersonification" would fit fairly well. i suppose an argument could be made for "objectification", but that carries different undertones.

i'd tend to agree with it being some form of prosopopeia ~ can someone break "prosopopeia" down and exchange the part that means "human" to something meaning "inanimate"?

EDIT: i wouldn't agree with transfiguration, milo, based on the fact that it suggests a necessary component of glorification/exaltation, whereas in the passage BY cites the speaker is clearly attempting to remove himself from the glory of being human.

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I’m not 100% sure of your question, BY, let alone the answer! This line seems fairly straightforward to me (though wrapped in Percy’s vile syntax, which is like straining porridge through an old sock) – it surely can be rendered as
“If I were a dead leaf [the West Wind] could carry….”

Is there something more complicated going on that I have not caught?

http://www.galegroup.com/free_resources/poets/poems/odewest.htm

Edit: Surely objectification would accurately describe attributing the state of inanimate material to a living human?

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Would abstractification apply? Then again, a leaf is not an abstract thing, but rather a tangible object. hmm...


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> ... like straining porridge through an old sock

Hah!! Nice one - too true!
I understand the meaning of the line just as you do, Mav.
'Objectification' is so simple, I guess that's right.


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I think, perhaps, two terms are required here, since there is a great difference between, say, a stone, an inanimate object, and a leaf, a living organism.

The Only WO'N!

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Surely objectification would accurately describe
'Objectification' is so simple, I guess that's right.

My Life as Chopped Liver (coming soon to a theatre near you!)


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chopped liver

bring on the onions, baby :)

hey, I was so surprised at seeing your name in lights just above mine, what can I say? You get the prize - a week in Noo Joisey second prize...

hahhahah, David, I know, gettoffdahturnpike!!


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My Life as Chopped Liver ®

The royalty check in in the mail, right?


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My Life as Chopped Liver ®

The royalty check in in the mail, right?


As caramia's agent, I should perhaps explain that this may be a confusion of accents (it being a well-none fact® that the angels of CA have elevated and superior diction to the rest of the world), since it would be unfortunate to raise expectations in the lovely A$P’s mind of substantial participation in the inevitable spin-off merchandising from the forthcoming smash-hit Oscara® winner…

What caramia's script (developed by a talented team of scriptwriters, at least one of whom has a name reminiscent of someone you think you may have heard of ~ or was that the cameraman's second assistant’s dog in the last Julia Roberts vehicle?) actually is can be more accurately rendered as My Life As Chopped Lover, a searing and passionate future-world indictment of the failures of Western Capitalism in the face of personal growth and an exploration of the tender workings of the human soul: think Terminator meets Love Story!



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Is there a leaf- or tree-version of anthropomorphise? That would fit... arbomorphise??

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reification?


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reification

I love it. A word composed of nothing but affixes.


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From M-W's Collegiate:
Main Entry: ob·jec·ti·fy
Pronunciation: &b-'jek-t&-"fI
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -fied; -fy·ing
Date: circa 1837
1 : to treat as an object or cause to have objective reality
2 : to give expression to (as an abstract notion, feeling, or ideal) in a form that can be experienced by others <it is the essence of the fairy tale to objectify differing facets of the child's emotional experience -- John Updike>
- ob·jec·ti·fi·ca·tion /-"jek-t&-f&-'kA-sh&n/ noun



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here I would say...
leafification.
ok, ok, I am joking


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That's funny, emanuela. And it sounds good in English.


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Inanimation?


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I think i like Poster: i like belligerentyouth's --'Objectification' is so simple, I guess that's right.

i think that is the psycological term for it.. psychotics tend to do it.. they are unable to see others as human, they objectify them..

societies do it too, if you make the other in your society an object-- not quite a real human, then, you don't feel guilty making them into slaves, or killing them, or starving them.. (pick a country-- US, Germany, England (viz Irish)) and with 10 seconds more time, i could think of a dozen other countries that have done it.


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Sorry, and I may be thick, but what about antipersonification? If you want the exact and diametric opposite, that is.



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what about antipersonification? If you want the exact and diametric opposite, that is.

Well, I spose if all you want is the exact and diametric opposite, and don't give a fetid dingo's kidney about what it means...


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He said he wanted to opposite of personification. I gave it to him. Complaints? Bleedin' pedants. Never there when you want them, always around when you don't. What's wrong with alt-usage-English anyway? Any fool can pick a nit or zero nits or even a damned bushel of them if they want. Honestly, I mean, I just give up.

Oh, and what, precisely, is a pair of foetid (note the spelling you Yank nekulturny basket) dingo's kidneys worth on the market today, anyway, hmmm?



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Any fool can pick a nit or zero nits or even a damned bushel of them if they want

Well, Harrumph®! and double Harrumph®! Used to was nit picking was the glue that held society together. Now it's thrown around like any common insult. And I, sirrah, am not just any fool; I am a very particular Fool!


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but what is the proper word to describe the type of poetic, hypothetical abstraction that follows? - Bellyouth

"If I were a [dead leaf] thou mightest bear" - [Shelley]

It seems Mr. Bellyouth, there was no such narrow word. so let us objectively examine the words suggested in context...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The soul of Shelley inanimated into a dead leaf.

The soul of Shelley reificated into a dead leaf.

The soul of Shelley objectificated into a dead leaf.

The soul of Shelley deantipersonificated into a dead leaf.

The soul of Shelley deleafified into a dead leaf.

The [soul] of [Shelley] transfigurated into a [dead leaf].



I don't know about you folks, but I vote for green. - -

...or, uh. maybe blue.

Or maybe transmuted, or metamorphised, or maybe...



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For the record, Shelley doesn't appear on the following list of one hundred influential people of the millennium, but Mary beat him out:

http://www.falls.igs.net/~dphillips/biography3.htm

So did Elvis, Princess Diana, and a few other surprising winners.

Just goes to show you, if you want to influence civilization, you're better off pouring your creative genius into a monster than into a leaf.

Boris regards,
WordWollstonecraft


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Reminds me of the time Nancy Reagan was named the most admired woman in the world. I think it was Jay Leno who responded: "Aren't you relieved she beat out that pushy Mother Teresa?" .


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I was chagrined not to know all of the people on the list. But I did get 99 out of a hundred. I am curious. Had any of you heard of number 94 before?



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I had heard of him only by that 'name', and would not have recognized his real name.


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Bless us and save us! Ronald Reagan appearing on a list with the likes of Gutenberg, Lincoln, Marco Polo, Einstein? - eeeehhhhyyyaaa - yet another day ruined.


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#69034 05/10/2002 6:18 PM
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"If I were a rich man".("deega deega deega dum....")

LLOL!!


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Shelley doesn't appear on the following list of one hundred influential people of the millennium, but Mary beat him out:

Really now, all she did was write one book about the dangers of playing God. How much influence did she actually have? The industrial revolution still took over. What about Mark Twain or Charles Dickens?

And, though I'm not defending Reagan's politics or nuclear defense plan, he did play a significant role in ending the Cold War. Even though he's a recent president, politics shouldn't enter into something like this. Gorbachev is on the list too.

And what about King George III? He certainly had a lot to do with provoking the American revolution.

Elvis?!?


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