#66009
04/18/2002 9:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Hope this one hasn't been discussed...I'm in a bit of a hurry and wanted to post this before going to school. I was talking to a friend about the southern hemisphere, of which I know nothing, and mentioned the old factoid about the water in the toilets moving in the opposite direction of the water in the northern hemisphere. So, I googled something like "toilet Southern hemisphere" and found a lot of information on the Coriolis Effect. The effect can't occur over small areas, e.g., toilet bowls, but my question is what are the applications of where the effect actually does occur? Are there tornadoes in the southern hemisphere? Here's one pasting of something read last night:
Fred W. Decker, professor emeritus of oceanic and atmospheric science at Oregon State University notes, however, that the Coriolis effect may actually have little to do with the behavior of real-world sinks and tubs...
Just wondering,
Rub-a-DubDub
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#66010
04/18/2002 12:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Dunno if it's YART or not, but I have more info than you'll EVER need on this one! Tornadoes and other such things (like ocean circulation) rotate one way in the NH (= oceanographer-ese for Northenr Hemisphere) and t'other way in the SH. Easy weather application: Wind blows counterclockwsie around a low pressure system in the NH.Take any weather map showing pressure contour lines, and look at it. A good first estimate of wind velocity and direction can be made by looking at the contour lines. The wind blows ALONG the contour lines (direction determined by whether you have a high or low pressure system) and the strength can be estimated by how close the contour lines are closer together (PM me for a formula if you REALLY want to know!). If the lines are very close together, you have a strong wind - farther apart, a weaker wind. Try it - find yourself a contour map of the atmospheric pressure in your part of the US right now and figure out which way the wind "should" be blowing (remember, CCW around low pressure and thus CW around high pressure) and then check the weather report to see if you're right! (There are other factors involved, especially geographic things like hills, mountains, etc., so it doesn't always work out perfectly.) Any SH readers should turn that around - it would be CW around a low-pressure system, and CCW around a high-pressure system. Anyway, like I said, ocean circulation follows the same sorts of rules. In oceanography (and presumably atmospheric science) we use "cyclonic" (= low-pressure in the centre) and "anticyclonic" (= high-pressure in the centre) to remove the hemispherical ambiguity. That is, if you know your physics, you can always figure out the actual direction if someone says "cyclone in the NH" for example. I like the quote in my oceanography book "However, the observer in the southern hemisphere is upside-down relative to the observer in the norther hemisphere and he calls the motion anticlockwise...It is a matter of point of view." 
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#66011
04/18/2002 2:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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#66012
04/18/2002 2:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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so sucks to you, Max, CapK, stales, and all the others
Not to mention that even tornadoes are small scale when viewed from the consideration of the Coriolis Effect.
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#66013
04/18/2002 7:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 200
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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#66014
04/18/2002 7:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#66015
04/18/2002 8:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Went to a party with old Coriolis and the outcome was that while I didn't drink anything I came out feeling dizzy. He has that effect on people. I think I was dizzy anti-clockwise. But then the old blowhard was always something of a spin doctor!
Heard tell of the Roaring Forties? Nice nightclub in rain-sodden downtown Okarito, population -2. Never really stops. Kinda blows you away, it really does.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#66016
04/18/2002 8:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,296 |
I'd like to apologize for posting "Coriolus Effect" on Q&A, but I didn't know where else to post it.
I'm trying to understand the meaning of the term, so I figured Q&A would be the place. Didn't think Miscellany would be it since it's not about coining or anything like that.
And it shurr didn't seem to be a place for Wordplay.
Without anywhere else to go, I figured, "To understand correct applications of the said effect, pose the question on Q&A."
Not meaning to rock the boat, clockwise or otherwise,
WordWind
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#66017
04/19/2002 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
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Posts: 1,156 |
No worries my dear WordWind, we will make it into a word post yet! I have some favourite oceanography words which I've collected over the last couple of years. Just to be mean I will post them without definitions for now (I am supposed to be working after all) and you guys can all discuss them! Advect (or advection) Bathymetry Drogue Eddy Fetch Seiche Sill Swell Thermocline Turbid (or turbidity) Vorticity Doldrums Fjord TTFN!
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#66018
04/19/2002 12:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Another great ocean word, oft misunderstood, is (tada!):
Ground
And some others:
Surges
Tidal Waves
tsunami
Edited out the "s" and replaced with "n"--thanks, Faldage!
Riptide
Ebbtide
Surf
Tide pools
Undertow
Beached regards,
WordWave
PS: How do you spell "tsusami"? Can't figure it out. tsunami
...got it, Faldage!
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#66019
04/19/2002 12:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
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How do you spell "tsusami"? Can't figure it out.
With an n.
tsunami
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#66020
04/19/2002 1:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Some more shore words
Berms
estuary (estuaries)
barrier islands
barrier reefs
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#66021
04/19/2002 1:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Soomer eeza coomin' een,
Lovely seengs cuckoooooo...
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#66022
04/19/2002 1:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Soomer eeza coomin' een,
OK, you asked for it.
Sumer is ycomen in,
Lhude sing, cucu.
Groweth sed and bloweth med
And springth the wode nu.
Sing, cucu.
Awe bleteth after lomb,
Luth after calve cu,
Bullock sterteth, bucce verteth,
murie sing, cucu.
Cucu, cucu, wel singes thu cucu,
ne swike thu naver nu.
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#66023
04/19/2002 1:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Not "berm", I think, Helen. You see that word a bit in real-estate practice, as a berm running alongside the highway to buffer noise. But admittedly, I did not stop to LIU.
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#66024
04/19/2002 1:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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You're right Helen.
berm (bûrm)
n.
A narrow ledge or shelf, as along the top or bottom of a slope.
Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, & West Virginia. The shoulder of a road.
A raised bank or path, especially the bank of a canal opposite the towpath.
A terrace formed by wave action along the backshore of a beach.
A mound or bank of earth, used especially as a barrier or to provide insulation.
A ledge between the parapet and the moat in a fortification.
tr.v., bermed, berm·ing, berms.
To provide with a berm or berms.
[French berme, from Dutch berm, from Middle Dutch bærm, berme.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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#66025
04/19/2002 1:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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It sounds like, as I thought, the word is not particularized to the context of "shore". Thanks for the LIU, mav. In flood-control practice (with which we who like in so flat and ill-drained a land as Chicago are familiar ), berms are often used in conjunction with "swales". Post-edit to dear-dear Dub-Dub : All I'm saying is -- well, let me analogize. You wouldn't put "bird" in a list of shore-words, even though of course some types of birds do make the shore their habitat. So too the six definitions of "berm": most (though not all) are unconnected with the shore.
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#66026
04/19/2002 2:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Mav pastes:
A terrace formed by wave action along the backshore of a beach.
...sounds like a shore term to me, Keiva... (You wrote: It sounds like, as I thought, the word is not particularized to the context of "shore". " Mebbe not limited to the shore, but certainly nothing short of the shore!
Beach regards,
WordWaves
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#66027
04/19/2002 2:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Thanks Mav, Long Island famous ocean shore (and yes, WO'N, NJ's too,) is made up of barrier island with berms on the back (bay side).. any construction that impacts the berms requires an enviromental impact statement and public hearings.. so i have gone to speak about Sound Berms! (talk about confusion!!-- a public meeting on Sound (LI Sound) Berm (construction impact) -- but they left out the Blue!)
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#66028
04/19/2002 2:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 4,757 |
Meanwhile, the version I was most familiar with was that of barriers around gun emplacements from interest in the Napoleonic Wars I know, I know - I should get out more!
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#66029
04/19/2002 7:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Well, now I've got backshore, to go with all those foreshores I've been coming across. Still don't have a clear picture in my mind, being about 650 miles from the nearest coast, but that's ok.
Okay, Bean--for the edificatioin read: amusement of all, I am going to attempt to define your lovely list of oceanography words, which I thank you for posting.
Advect (or advection)--the direction of the current
Bathymetry--the depth of the troughs
Drogue--the pull of the tide going out
Eddy--I KNOW this one!--that little swirl
Fetch--no clue
Seiche--no clue
Sill--no clue--crest of a wave?
Swell--the water rising and falling
Thermocline--temperature variance
Turbid (or turbidity)--the movement of the waves
Vorticity--um--a circling current
Doldrums--near-flat water
Fjord--those things in Norway
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#66030
04/19/2002 8:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Seiche
We useta have these in Chicago when I was just a wee sprout. It's a small lake sized (not that Lake Michigan is a small lake) tsunami sort of thang, cept I don't think it was caused by seismic disturbances.
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#66031
04/19/2002 9:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
Seiche
We still have 'em, Faladage. I've seen one about 5' one morning fishing with my brother. I heard there was a "wicked good" one about 20' tall sometime in the 50's. They are caused by a tight and fast moving High-meets-Low pressure system boundry that travels parallel to the shore line. The resulting reflecting wave generally dissipates, but that depends on how different the two systems were.
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#66032
04/19/2002 9:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
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member
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Posts: 144 |
Fetch--no clue
_____________
a fetch is a bit complicated to explain, but it's basically one side of a beat.
If you're going upwind in a yacht/sailing dinghy then you have to beat, which means going at roughly a 45 degree angle to either side of the wind as a boat with sails cannot go directly into the wind. This point of sail is as close to the wind as you can get and is called being 'close-hauled'. With me so far??
A beat is only a beat if you have to use both sides of the angle - ie zig-zagging (tacking) towards the wind to get from A to B.
If you can get from point A to point B without having to tack - that is staying on the same close-hauled course the entire way then you are fetching that point and are said to be on a fetch.
Once you are no longer close-hauled then you're not fetching any more, but veering towards a tight reach (some other time!)
Clear as mud - right??
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#66033
04/19/2002 9:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yeahbut, Keiva, berm is clearly defined as a geographical feature of the shore. Birds aren't included as one of the definitions, so you at least can't say a bird is a berm--not that you were getting at that, but thought I'd throw it in!
If a berm's at the shore and caused by the ocean, then it belongs on the list the same way tide pools (that come and go and don't even have the staying power of berms) could be included. It shore sounded to me as though you were trying to say a berm ain't at the shore, though it clearly is according to the definition provided.
You wrote:
You wouldn't put "bird" in a list of shore-words, even though of course some types of birds do make the shore their habitat. So too the six definitions of "berm": most (though not all) are unconnected with the shore.
Sure, most aren't connected, but one of those rascally definitions is intimately connected with the ocean--owes its very existence to the ocean.
It's the ocean causing said berms that makes me think Helen's entry is a.o.k.
I'll add:
The Outer Banks, NC
...the ocean is gobbling them up with the help of hurricanes!
Beach regards,
Wordwind
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#66034
04/19/2002 10:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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this one i know
Turbid (or turbidity) -- clarity of the water..
(ie, the normaly clear cool blue water of the tropical lagoon, was made turbid by the mud slides..
(forgetting the spelling of (lhora?)-- our geology thread word..)
Turbity is important-- it effects how deep sunlight can penitrate the water.. colder water, in general, is more turbid than warm water.(dark, opaque northern seas, clear, light tropical ones)
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#66035
04/19/2002 10:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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and here one we have done before
a bore.. (a tidal bore)
rip tide
undertow i don't remember seeing it..
and little neck bay is home to a rare shore effect
mud volcanos.
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#66036
04/19/2002 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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In the ocean near Montezuma, Costa Rica, I swam in waters that had a curious bubbly phenomenom, much like swimming in warm champagne. It made me giggle. Is there a name for this? Ok, then, an explanation?
Could it have something to do with volcanic activity? Waaaah. I want to go back!
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#66037
04/19/2002 11:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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It shore sounded to me as though you were trying to say a berm ain't at the shore
Nice pun! If I were saying that, I'd be clearly wrong.
I'm jest sayin' that a berm "ain't necessarily at the shore" -- in fact, most berms aren't there. "Berms", under all but one of AHD's definitions, can be away from shore. (As you note in contrast, a tide pool is, of course, always by definition on the shore.)
To "shore up" our mutual wordplay, here are some "shore" words, new to me, that I stumbled upon. The "shore" is apparently divided into backshore and nearshore:
--backshore: The area of shore lying between the average high-tide mark and the vegetation, affected by waves only during severe storms.
--nearshore: The region of land extending from the backshore to the beginning of the offshore zone.
But it gets even more confusing. Since "nearshore" extends to the start of the "offshore zone", it seems to includes some land that is always submerged. That is, "nearshore" does not end at the water's edge:
--offshore (noun): The ... submerged land extending seaward from beyond the region where breakers form to the edge of the continental shelf.
--breaker zone:: The nearshore zone between the outermost breakers and the area of the wave uprush. Also called surf zone.
[all definitions per bartleby; emphases added]
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#66038
04/19/2002 11:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Curioser and curiouser. Berm seems to be one of those words differently defined (in this respect) in different dictionaries. AHD (which mav quoted above) includes one shore-related definition. But contrast Merriam Webster on-line:
berm: a narrow shelf, path, or ledge typically at the top or bottom of a slope; also : a mound or wall of earth
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#66039
04/19/2002 11:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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musick, perhaps you can confirm this? I believe seiche is specific to a type of wave in a lake -- that is, you wouldn't have a seiche in the ocean.
I can't speak to the cause of a seiche, but I believe that one of its characteristics is that it oscillates back and forth across the lake.
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#66040
04/19/2002 11:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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from Bean's great list -- fetch
I think an another meaning of fetch (beyond what rkay notes) was discussed in the novel The Perfect Storm. [Anyone have a copy handy?] As I recall, the fetch of a wind is the distance it travels over water: the longer the fetch, the larger the wave it will build up. For that reason, even the largest waves on lakes are nowhere near the size of major ocean waves.
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#66041
04/20/2002 12:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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spring tide: When the sun, moon and earth are aligned. neap tide: When at right angles the forces are not aligned. The time between spring and neap is approximately 7 days. Here's a link to a Coastal Navigation site with a marvelous animated illustration, chart, and full tidal story: http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse6.htmlFrom the site: The earth is also in orbit around the sun (one turn in one year) creating not only another centrifugal force but also a gravitational interaction. These two yield a bulge on the night site (centrifugal) and bulge on the day site (gravitational) both of them moving as the world turns. Therefore, a certain place on this world will experience two high and two low tides each day. With these forces alone, we would not have spring tides and neap tides. Spring tides have higher high tides and lower low tides whereas neap tides have lower high tides and higher low tides. Hence, the range (difference in water level between high and low tide) is much larger in a spring tide than in a low tide. The Only WO'N!
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#66042
04/20/2002 12:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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tombolo:
A coastal feature that forms when a belt sand and/or gravel is deposited between an island and the mainland. This feature is above sea-level for most of the time.
swash:
A thin sheet of water that moves up the beach face after a wave of water breaks on the shore.
The Only WO'N!
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#66043
04/20/2002 12:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#66044
04/20/2002 12:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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mav's berm: Merriam Webster on-line: berm: a narrow shelf, path, or ledge typically at the top or bottom of a slope; also : a mound or wall of earth
edit: you sneaky thang, DJ! - and you got me thinking with your 'missing link' that you were saying there's no such usage context...
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#66045
04/20/2002 12:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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mav's bermMeanwhile, the version I was most familiar with was that of barriers around gun emplacements from interest in the Napoleonic Wars. I know, I know - I should get out more!Did ya click the photo link, mate? The Only WO'N!
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#66046
04/20/2002 1:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>Once you are no longer close-hauled then you're not fetching any more, but veering towards a tight reach (some other time!)rkay you cad!!! Who you calling unfetching and no longer close-hauled.  ____________________________________________ Jackie, I always thought a thermocline was not just a difference in temperature of the water but the visible line that is created where the different waters are separated. I find that the line is a lot easier to see in a lake where there is much less wave action than in the ocean. Most often the waters even have different clarities. __________________________________________ W'ON when did you stop being our Happy Epeolatrist? When did your epeolatricity start waning? Poor sweet thing.
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#66047
04/20/2002 1:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 872
old hand
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old hand
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STOP!!!Well I read a entire book about berms. Remember about a hundred topics and five minutes ago yall were talking about berms? Berms are ,as defined by the people who study them, the strips of land that border the sides of a river or creek with topography and eco-systems directly interlinked to the effects of the stream. And doubledamn, I had something important to say about the "coriolis effect" but now I've forgotten it. Oh well... 
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#66048
04/20/2002 1:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the photo link, mate?yeah - thanks, very... Napoleonic Milum, isn't the main feature of <berminess> simply describing a bank or mound, and its specific context then determines what other features may apply? and tho' I don't get out enough and do read a *lot, I think I can proudly boast I haver *never read a complete book about berms 
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