I think that Quinion as usual is very sound. Incidentally, his Level Nine clouds reminds me of the Philippines, where at night such clouds perhaps very ten seconds would have brilliant internal lightning, with no sound. I could walk over rough terrain without having to fear stepping into a hole.
but say, something on MQ's list of other common "nine" expressions -- "the full nine yards" -- reminds me of another query i've been meaning to pose....
Does anyone know where the phrase "the full monty" originates?
Well, we've had some thorough treatment of this one before of course - Mr. Tsuwm included. I stumbled across a site called www.uselessknowledge.com which should have a direct link to his WWFTD and it offers this:
The Full Monty
This British phrase, meaning "the whole thing," has been popularized in America recently due to the movie of the same name. It has been common in Britain, however, since the 1980s.
The earliest attested usage is from 1986 in the book Street Talk, the Language of Coronation Street (Coronation Street being a popular British television show at the time). The origin of the phrase, however, is unknown, but there are probably as many suggestions as to its origin as there are for its American equivalent "the whole nine yards."
None of the following explanations, however, have any serious evidence to support them:
It refers to Field Marshal Montgomery's habit of meticulously planning his assaults, including intensive and detailed artillery preparations; It refers to Montgomery in full-dress uniform with all his medals; It refers to Montgomery's habit of eating a large breakfast each morning; Breakfast, but not Montgomery's, instead it's the ones served by Mrs. Montague at The Lennox Cafe in Bognor Regis, West Sussex; It refers to expensive formal clothing purchased at the tailor shop of Montague Burton; It is gambler's slang derived from the game of three-card Monte; It is a corruption of "the full amount;" It derives from a television commercial for fruit juice in which an actor asks for "the full Del Monte;" Finally, it could come from Australian and New Zealand slang, a "monty" being a bet (especially on a horse) that is a sure thing. This slang term from down under dates to at least 1894 according to the OED2.
Not very satisfying is it! The use of 'the full monty' to mean 'to get completely naked' is typical of the British sense of humour.
Oh well. While we're on the topic of famous idioms let me bring up 'cut and dried' and avoid an extra thread. I know that this saying is said to derive from the timber/wood area - fair enough. Word detective offers what I consider an unsatisfactory - or incomplete definition of the term as I've used it and seen it used:
The phrase you're thinking of is "cut and dried," referring to something that is routine, commonplace or ordinary, and thus hackneyed, boring and predictable.
'Boring'? Naa! Predictable maybe. For me it has always referred specifically (as specific as a vague idiom can be) to something 'unambiguous', 'unmistakable', or to use idioms, something 'black-and-white', that 'speaks for itself'. Any thoughts?
This expression, meaning "very fashionably and elaborately dressed", is recorded from the 18th century. "The nine" or "the nines" were used to signify "superlative" in numerous other contexts. Theories include: 9, being the highest single-digit number, symbolized the best; a metanalysis of Old English _to then eyne_ "to the eyes"; and a reference to the 9 muses.
Does anyone know the comparison rate between coon's age and donkey's years? (Dog years is irrelevant, I maintain, since the first two specifically mean a long time. However, now I'm wondering about other animals being connected to measuring time, and how this got started in the first place.)
I may be wrong in assuming this by your post Faldage, but was coon a word used to describe black people? I've never heard that. It is short for racoon here.
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