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Just now received, and copied verbatim. You crude, bullying children should be ashamed of yourselves.
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Dear Mr Spector:
After the many unpleasant exchanges between yourself and many of the other members of the AWAD board in recent months, I came to understand that you had wisely reconsidered your plans to attend the gathering at my home scheduled for this coming June. Recently, however, remarks you have made have led me to believe that you still expect to attend, despite the antagonistic relationship you have with many, if not most, of the people who will be there.
I am sorry to conclude that your attendance would constitute inviting mutual dislike and distrust into my home, and I cannot inflict such a circumstance on my family or my guests. I therefore must make this clear: you are not welcome to attend.
I am distressed that circumstances have come to this, but I have considered the matter carefully and I am resolved. You need not reply, since I will not discuss this further.
I trust that I have made matters clear.
Sincerely,
Ann Herzberg
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I haven't been over the board since being AWOL from AWAD for a few days, so don't know what new vitriol has been splashed around.....But I have to add my two cents's worth here:
I love Keiva. He's never been anything but nice to me. In fact, mostly I likes people when I meet them. But I don't like it when people are crude, bullying children either - I had enough of that when I was a shy, put-upon child myself.
So if Keiva's not welcome at Wordapalooza!, I won't be there myself. Maybe he - and anyone else on the board who cares to join him - can pop up to Kingston for some peace love and harmony avec moi. Same weekend....But I can't offer to put everyone up unless people want to get to know each other very, very well indeed....(small apartment!) Still, maybe I can talk my darling Mumsy into putting up some folks....
Peace love harmony, people. [hippie dippie flower child-e]
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Ah, you've got tubes, girl, I love you.
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I haven't been over the board since being AWOL from AWAD for a few days, so don't know what new vitriol has been splashed around.....But I have to add my two cents's worth here:
I was so sure that with all the sad things happening all over the world, that here at AWAD, where I thought kindness and thoughtfulness reside that the spirit in every activity would be towards reconciliation and "can we just get along" kind of thing.
I must be so naive because I cannot think of anything that one can do on this board that can arouse such venom.
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anything that one can do on this board that can arouse such venom.
Really. One wonders how one poor misunderstood soul could arouse such venom in an otherwise kind, friendly and accepting group of people.
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Ok, Ok, now we're working it out here.
I was listening to NPR yesterday and on "These Days" the author of a book about reconciliation was discussing the difference between capitulation and reconciliation. I think the title of the book was "I Thought I'd Never Talk to You Again." I THOUGHT OF SOME OF THE BOARD MEMBERS during this program. . .fondly of course. I didn't get to listen to the whole program but I believe her premise was that yes, we can forgive and move on and certainly that is important to do.
I don't know where I heard this or read this or maybe even my therapist told me...if you don't forgive someone you are allowing them to have control over you. Why would you want that? Apologizing and forgiving is not easy, but it does free a person in a sense. I have seen a post somewhere that suggests that no one needs a mother now that they are an adult, I disagree, we all need a person like that, in the ideal sense of someone who loves you unconditionally who can forgive what silly, hurtful, or un-thought-out things you might say and tells you (and believes in the fact) that you can be a bigger, better person.
Is there fault? No. Is there misunderstanding? Yes. Hurtful words. Yes. One might say, but she...One might say, but he....It would be a good thing to let it rest.
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Last time i checked, this was a public forum, any one could post anything they wanted, at any time. we generally use self control, and more or less keep the topic to words, but there have been digressions.
the wordapalooza is a party being hosted by a private person. it is not a public event, even if it has been talked about publicly. i think i would enjoy meeting everyone on this board in a public place like a park or coffee shop, or somewhere. I know, there are members here that i would not want as guest in my house.
public space and private space are two very different places.
the starting post is from a single person, and it contains a letter from the host. It is at this persons house, her private space that wordapalooza will occur. She has every right to limit the number of guest, and control who she allows to enter her house. I was not consulted on this decision, and really have no opinion i wish to express about it.
the decision is hers, not this boards. I do not think she needs to explain or justify her decision to everyone in this public forum. it's not really a public discussion.
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> it's not really a public discussion.
...and should have never been offered for such, as the original email was sent privately.
-ron obvious
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sent privately.
Yes...a respect for privacy. Interesting notion, isn't it?
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I have, up to this point, kept aloof from the unseemly squabbles that have besmirched this board of late. But the following remark has prompted me, after considerable deliberation, to make what will be my one and only statement on the matter.
You crude, bullying children should be ashamed of yourselves.
You, Keiva, many of whose posts over the past few months have been crude, bullying and childish, should be the very last person to level such accusations. In addition, you have become despicable by publishing a letter addressed to you privately. That you had previously announced your intention to take such action does not diminish the contempt that you deserve for such ungentlemanly behaviour.
That others have taken misguided action at times cannot be used as an excuse.
You, Sir, should be ashamed of yourself.
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And the sniping has begun again.
LAY OFF KEIVA, PEOPLE. He is good people.
I quite understand that:
1. Wordapalooza is a privately-arranged event, and
2. It is being held in a private venue, and
3. Probably ALL of us can think of one or more people on the board we would not want as a house guest.
However, I am with of_troy on this one: I think it would be excellent if we could have a meeting in some big happy public place. A park sounds excellent (as long as it's a nice weekend - and in June that's likely, yes?!). That way everyone can be there. It sounds as though attendance is likely to be such that no one need speak to anyone he/she wishes to avoid.
In spite of all that's gone on, I feel certain that I could at least talk civilly with ASp (the poster I would least like within my four walls!). I'm sure she has plenty to offer that I haven't seen....(this is me trying to polish the dull side, since I can't see the bright one!) I've found there are very few people in the world I can't get along with - I could probably count them on the fingers of one hand, out of the hundreds I've met.
It would be nice if something such as Wordapalooza, which has been very publicly advertised here on the board, were not an exclusive event. For some reason, before I started learning more about it, I had thought it would be held at a hotel or some similar public place where we could all meet with impunity. Any chance of making it so? ASp could still have to stay anyone who wanted to bunk in at her place, but we could perhaps meet on neutral ground.
(exit stage left again, still singing "Why can't we be friends....")
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ASp (the poster I would least like within my four walls!)
You can rest assured that she is the person most welcome of any I have ever known to be within my four walls.
"Why can't we be friends...."
An excellent question. A very excellent question. Most of us are.
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To tsuwm and W'On: Nonsense. You are arguing that one may evade responsibility for his hurtful writings, simply by choosing to put them in one vehicle rather than another. My position is fully in accord with law: the message is the recipient's to use as he or she wishes. Your view, of course, is of great convenience for those who wish evade responsibility for their nastiness. May I suggest that your view is self-serving? [Edit: And what has become of your vaunted opposition to censorship?] Different folks may have differing view, of course, as has been already discussed. But as that discussion made clear, anyone who chooses to write a nasty to me does so fully knowing that it is subject to publication. They cannot complain of consequences of which they were warned. If you are unwillng to have your hurtful words seen -- if you would be ashamed to have others know you wrote them -- then don't write them. http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=55390
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Dear Rhub:
1) Another example of evading the question of one's behavior by attacking the questioner. [Edit: If you want to start such a thread you are welcome to, but it might be well to adduce example, rather than simply your conclusions.]
2) You are entitled to your views on publication, but as this board has recognized that other views are legitimate, it is hardly appropriate for you to call them "despicable". Stop ranting.
According to wow: the recipient of a letter owns the letter and may publish it abroad as they like ... but it is not something I would do without permission of the sender. 'Never write anything you don't want to see on the front page of The New York Times.' Later Edit by wow- This is meant as a general statement of *my feelings and no criticism of anyone is implied or should be inferred"
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write a nasty to me
And what, pray tell, could you have interpreted in that PM as being nasty?
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RE: It would be nice if something such as Wordapalooza, which has been very publicly advertised here on the board, were not an exclusive event. For some reason, before I started learning more about it, I had thought it would be held at a hotel or some similar public place where we could all meet with impunity
are you offering to plan one? Oh goody! so far i have been to canada's atlantic proviences, and to BC, but never really just headed north, and met BelMarduk, seen Montereal, or even onterio.. I'll come!
i have met with some of the regular posters here.. and every one has been even nice in person than there are here.
when i met Betsy, (AKA as AsP, AnnaStrophic,) the first thing i did was put my foot in my mouth, and say "oh you are so much nicer in person..."-- and truer words were never spoken, she took no offence, and gently helped me remove my foot! it was a pleasure!
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ROTFLMAO, faldage! "an otherwise kind, friendly and accepting group of people" Surely you were ironic (and wittily so), for surely you cannot have you forgotten, for example, the mattters that Jackie brought up in her Personal Plea and Sadness threads. It's well-recognized that there has been nastiness on this board -- heck, no one here is perfect -- and I presume you don't wish me to list further examples.
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Helen, I'd bet you are 100% correct when you say, "Every one has been even nicer in person than there are here." I suspect that would be true for each and every one of us, when freed from the relative impersonality of electronic communication.
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list further examples
Yes, please do, thank you for offering. And point them out perhaps a little more clearly than vaguely referring to threads. Post urls of specific posts and do so in threaded mode so we get the specific post and not a long thread. Keep the urls short by truncating after the first instance of the post number. And remember that word otherwise; we're looking for nastiness not directed at you.
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I would prefer to remain silent, but perhaps I owe it to Keiva to say a few words. I admire his knowledge and many enjoyable posts. He could not help going ballistic when, though not intended, a joke was made about the Holocaust, which is surely not a joking matter.
He was provoked to attempt singlehandedly. because none of us felt it could be done, to change things on the Board. His motives were pure, but his tactics ill designed. He gave a war, and nobody came.
I can understand Sparteye's concern for her party's being pooped.
But I think we owe Keiva sympathy, not more opprobrium.
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F -- Are you seriously suggesting that our group has been free of nasty notes (except as noted in your final sentence)?
If so, glad to provide what you ask. But since others (Jackie, for example) may prefer not to have that matter posted here, I'll wait and allow time for their input -- and then send you that data by a post or by a PM.
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Faldage, much as I know you and ASp are besotted with each other, I hasten to preempt Keiva and point out a time that ASp was, if not nasty, at least more than a tad presumptuous. I can't be arsed to find the url but you can find the post yo'sef if you looks under Unca Bill's thread, the title of which he changed to "post denounced by modestgoddess." In there, AnnaS suggested that newbies should not be allowed to call YARTs.
Well, eff that noise.
Eff this whole noise on the board, actualment. It has been pointed out that we would all like each other a lot better without the technological cloak of anonymity. Isn't that enuf said? We can try to keep the nastinesses to a minimum by NOT PUSHING EACH OTHER'S BUTTONS - and by NOT PRESUMING that because anyone has been on the board longer, he or she is entitled to a) speak for others or b) boss others around.
If something insulting is said, it can be retracted gracefully (or gracelessly, I admit I've been there), yes?
But to me, the beginning point of this thread was a rude PM to Keiva. It comes back to this: Yes, it is understandable that someone not want to invite a specific person into his/her home. However, Wordapalooza has been made open to everyone on this board. Keiva is on this board. Therefore, if ASp does not feel comfortable including Keiva in the word-o-rama, perhaps she should consider holding it on neutral territory. Then she can have whomever she is happy to have in her home as a place to doss down - but we can all meet somewhere where we can mingle as freely or constrainedly as we choose.
Bottom line: Wordapalooza SHOULD NOT be an exclusive event.
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Supplement to my previous post: we're looking for nastiness not directed at you.Question, David: are you implying that nastiness is socially acceptable, if directed at me? If so, I would disagree. One can (and should) confine even the most vigorous and sharp disagreement within civilized standards of discourse. Satin put it well: "swear words were used by people who were too ignorant of the English Language to make people understand their point of view." http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=39430, near the end of the thread
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Just for clarification:
I am sorry to conclude that your attendance would constitute inviting mutual dislike and
distrust into my home, and I cannot inflict such a circumstance on my family or my guests.
Sincerely,
Ann Herzberg
[edit]: tsuwm said, ASp and Ann are not the same person. This was the only point of my post here.
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Just for further clarification:
Bottom line: Wordapalooza SHOULD NOT be an exclusive event.
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implying that nastiness is socially acceptable, if directed at me?
Not at all. We're trying to document the allegation that there is a general tone of nastiness on this board. If it is directed only at you we must seriously consider the proposition that it is deserved. I would ask you to refrain from posting the contents of any private messages to you, since it would not be in any way proof of a general tone of nastiness. I would further ask you not to post any private messages directed to anyone other than you of which you have knowledge since you could know of them only from a party who is not disinterested. It would also not be indicative of public nastiness.
What we're trying to do is establish that there is a general public tone of nastiness. There is also the matter of what has been referred to as Good Natured Banter. One might hope that the intelligent viewer can detect this, but if necessary perhaps the parties involved would be allowed to indicate that that is what it was.
This was composed and posted before the promised edit.
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Dear mg: much as I love and admire you, I have to re-iterate that we cannot expect Sparteye to bring a squabble into her home.
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And sparteye is entitled to her view on that, dr. bill. This board is a public forum, but (as Helen correctly noted) sparteye's home is a private home, and she has a perfect right to close it off to whomever she chooses. (I would certainly not plan to "crash the gates".)
That choice, however, tends to confirm that there are some who wish to make this society clubby and exclusive. It is IMHO equivalent to the nine-year-old who invites to his birthday party everyone in his class at school -- except one.
W'ON, I hope the latter paragraph is responsive to your point.
Edit to dr. bill: Nobody came? The ides have come, dear doctor, but not gone.
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>Therefore, if ASp does not feel comfortable including Keiva in the
word-o-rama, perhaps she should consider holding it on neutral territory.
and it should be pointed out (I know it's confusing for newbies) ASp and Ann are not the same person.
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Dear Keiva: Early policy of AWADtalk was AYLEUR an assertion of diversity, not unity
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re: Bottom line: Wordapalooza SHOULD NOT be an exclusive event.
why not? i haven't made it a secret that i've met faldage and AnnaS, Rubrick, and Jo(common in there because, F & A are couple, but R & J are not!)
Jackie, connie and others have arranged meeting, CK has met many who post here, both in public setting and as guests, in there house.
Ann has taken the lead in the wordapalooza (a name us dyslexics hate, its so hard to type too!) It is her party.She planned it, she is hosting it. she has spoken about it publicly, but it is still a private party.
i don't see any nastyness in her letter, it was curt, and to the point. but i know i have on the recieving end of nasty posts, and at this point i deal with in 2 ways. i don't reply directly to anything the person says, and i don't open or read PM's from them.
i don't make my issues public, i don't complain of nastiness. i try and behave as i want to be treated.
please, reread the letter from ann. please point out when and where she is nasty. Kieva might not have liked the message, but its not a nasty message. whats more-- kieva complains in the plural. I am adult; i do what i do. Ann is an adult; she, too, act for herself. i don't know who is being blamed.. but its pretty unpleasant to see blame , assigned to a group, with no evidence of the group even existing!
if its just being broadcast to everyone here, well i am one of the people here, and i didn't like being blamed, even if only in general, rather than specifically.
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Wow (not wow!) - I AM confused.....Okay, but I think I have it now. Ann is Sparteye and ASp is Annastrophic, and it is Ann's home we are discussing, yes?
I will defend to the death any person's right to close his/her home to people that he/she does not want there. I myself have gone through times when I decided my little apartment would be testosterone-free for awhile....It depends on the person and the person's "vibes" that they bring into your beloved space. I notice Keiva also respects this.
However (let me say it one more time, apparently I have been stuttering): Let Sparteye invite whomever she wishes, to STAY WITH HER - but let us have Wordapalooza on neutral territory somewhere, where everyone may show up who wishes to.
I would love for the venue to shift to Kingston (because then I could attend for sure!) - and I know exactly where I'd hold it, assuming I could book the place: the Springer Lounge at the Grand Theatre, which is upstairs (but still wheelchair acessible by elevator, I hasten to point out, just in case?) and is small enough to provide an intimate environment, but large enough to easily and comfortably accommodate 100 people. There's a bar so we could have a cash bar, and each month the art show on the walls changes. We could do pot-luck or have it catered. We could decorate or leave it at the art.
Something like that. I'm sure there must be a similar space in Lansing? and that, for the sake of amity, we would all be happy to kick in a little something towards the rental thereof? (the Springer Lounge is between $50 and $100 Canadian - with the exchange rate the way it is at the moment, that's between $25 and $50 for US'ns).
My attempt at a solution.
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In reply to:
Wordapalooza has been made open to everyone on this board.... ASp does not feel comfortable including Keiva in the word-o-rama...Wordapalooza SHOULD NOT be an exclusive event...but we can all meet somewhere where we can mingle as freely or constrainedly as we choose
whoa there, nelly ~ maybe i see where the problem exists, here. i think there's some *terrible confusion regarding the gathering in Ann's home, and perhaps it should've been cleared up sooner.
the WaP idea originated in June of last year, before we had experienced any of the ugliness on the Board. i feel comfortable speaking of this because i was one of the originators of the idea, which grew in wonderful ways. the "open invitation" went out way back then, because at that point in time we all got along. we are talking about an event in someone's *home, a gathering of friends. surely even keiva isn't thick enough not to realize that at this point there is simply too much water under the bridge for his presence not to cause problems. as ann stated in her letter, it's terribly sad that things have come to this, but they have. nobody wants to travel thousands of miles to be greeted by controversy. ann has every right ~ as is the right of any hostess ~ to tailor her guest list. to suggest otherwise would be ridiculous. further, i personally would *not feel comfortable attending *any overnight event with an "open public invitation". i have to much in 'real life' at stake ~ i know and trust each and every one of attendees, and would not otherwise attend. i don't think i'm the only one that feels this way, either.
to this end, i sympathize and agree with some of what has been said here ~ i can see where the confusion may be, and as such i think that this private gathering and discussions of same should not take place on the board. i'm not suggesting censorship, here... just common courtesy.
mg ~ i see much of myself in you... i pulled many of the same stunts when i joined the board, and was admonished by AnnaStrophic (among others). folks around here appreciate intellect, wit, kindness and consideration... and that's the only way into the hearts and good graces of this group that i can ever see being successful  . oh, and FWIW, i'd be honored to have ASp (and even her crotchety mate  ) in my own home anytime.
i think your idea of a simultaneous (or otherwise) public gathering is a terrific one ~ have fun with it, and send a pic or two for the gallery. and hey ~ stick around for another year, contribute consistently to the board in the Spirit it was Intended, and look forward to an invitation to WaPII next year  .
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Well, i will be glad to attend a second or even a third gathering.. but one night? Rhu is coming from UK, as is CK, and others from California, and while canada is a quick drive for me, closer even than MI, i don't relish going up to Montereal and back in a single day.
so accommadation has to be considered. as do schedules. school, family vacation, work-- some like Jazzo, a university student, can't really just take off any time he chooses he might miss end terms! and paying for university? i bet he needs to think about a summer job, too.
And Rhu and CK, need to plan ahead to get the cheapest air fares.. since money, no matter how much you have, is always a concern. and most of us have rug rats of various ages, or other family members who have a first priortiy on our time.
and yes, you are coming into this at the end, and you don't have all the information.. witness, you have't figured out who is who--entirely. but it hasn't stopped you from expressing some very strong opinions.
now i expression opinions (strong and not so strong) all the time with out having all the facts, but it a risky thing to do. but don't trust me to give you all the information, i am biased.. (after all, i am perfect and do no wrong, so all nastiness direct at me, was totally out of place! Oh i wish!)
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Ahhhh. Wordapalooza is a PRIVATE event. Then, as caradea suggested, it SHOULD NOT be discussed publicly on the board. Yet, it has been. How to go back? Perhaps everyone should just IGNORE THIS THREAD. Then Sparteye should PM those she wishes to invite - and that group of people can correspond by PM, and not tease the rest of us with what is, apparently, the jolly get-together of an exclusive clique. Meanwhile: Does anyone WANT to come to Kingston for a gathering? Like I said before, I myself can't offer to put people up (except, of course, for my harem, and Angel, who is going to research said harem with me ) - but there are many, many places to stay in Kingston, most very close together, many on the water, many pleasing B&Bs, and as previously mentioned, the exchange rate is shockingly in favour of almost anyone who chose to show up (how did the Cdn dollar get so low, how?!). Kingston's a pretty town and there's plenty to see and do. Could be great fun! So is there interest Out There On The Board for a truly inclusive gathering? in Kingston, I mean? (cos I wouldn't be organizing it anywhere else!) Have a look on a map of North America - we is at the eastern-most end of Lake Ontario (easternmost of the Great Lakes), at the confluence of three waterways: Lake Ontario, the St Lawrence River, and the Rideau Canal. We're just a two-hour drive from Ottawa, the nation's capital - you could pop on up there after Openpalooza and have a look around! Anyone?
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Helen, your post provides a useful place to respond to faldage's demand that I identify instances of (non-keiva-directed) nastiness. One is reluctant to point fingers. But since you uniquely had the good grace to apologize for the incident in which you were involved, I trust that one (the one involving goldibear) may be the one least painful to mention. You'll recall that the current version reflects your wise toning down of the original, more incendiary comments. Milum will doubtless recall an incident (not involving you, Helen) in which he was excoriated, very early in his tenure. Faldage, if you wish further examples or detail you and I can communicate by PM or e-mail. http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=43600 http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=43670
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Wordapalooza...SHOULD NOT be discussed publicly on the board. Yet, it has been.
Well, acksherly (and not to pick nits or anything) if you do a search on "Wordapalooza" mentions over the past month(excluding this thread, of course) you'll find that all but one from wow were written by the same three folks ~ two of whom aren't attending.
b. obvious
[edit] for those who struggle with deductive reasoning, i offer this simply as an indication that we who are attending do indeed discuss it in private, now that it has become a point of contention. in the beginning, of course, we all got along and there was no reason to exclude anyone ~ thus we discussed WaP joyfully and publicly ~ those were the days, hmm?
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of course, caradea, when you limit it to include only "this month" mentioned; "not this thread"; "number of people"; "excluding non-attendees" -- of course you minimize the number. An old lawyer's trick when you want to get a low number -- but a bit artificial.
"Wordapalooza" has been mentioned 145 times on this board (apart from this thread; and not including misspellings, abbreviations; references before the name was coined, etc.) YCLIU
Hope we can avoid confusing things any more than necessary, gal.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw
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Bean, I am responding with a separate thread. I fear you are regrettably wrong in your facts, for which yu provide no cite.
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Interesting indeed. This thread was started by someone who had posted once before this, and a year and a half before at that. She made a post that was widely (whether rightly or wrongly) interpreted as spam. She received some gentle suggestions that it was spam, which is not welcome here, but she was also defended by others who noted that she was at least up front about the nature of what she was posting. One person, five days later, gets a little more adamant about her dislike of what had preceded.
The statement about these posts being toned down versions of the original merely taints the evidence with no way to verify for anyone who did not copy and save the originals.
I invite anyone to look at that entire thread and decide if it shows a general tendency on the part of anyone towards nastiness.
I will not take this to the PM or email level because then your side will not be seen by anyone else except, perhaps AnnaStrophic and not even by her if requested. I do not share private correspondences.
BTW, it was not a demand; it was a request. Yes, please do, thank you for offering is not a demand.
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Everybody's wrong, but Keiva...O Great Sanctimonious Saint Thou art.
Your Happy Epeolatrist!
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and Keiva, though I love him, isn't
Excuse me for asking..but, huh? You've only been here for 2 days, ewein, how can you get to know somebody that quickly?
Your Happy Epeolatrist!
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... why this board does not have a hammer, like other chat boards (no answer); some of the language was filthy, to say the least. This board doesn't have a hammer, because there is no need for one as long as people (and most do) exercise self-control. By self-control I mean just that. Understanding and following the context of a "discussion board" - vs - "chat room" would be all that is required, but that, IMHO, is where the real problem lies (or is that "lays" )  . Also IMHO there is no such thing as "filthy" language. Words are words. There may be inappropriate times to use them, but that is a matter for discusion here (whaddya know). There are sensitivities that are respected when respect is given to all perspectives from the "get go". This is not a "chat board", and I repeat, this is where any and all "problems" have risen from: the inability, lack of inclination or just not knowing to the difference between them. What you may have noticed recently (ewein - I don't know how far back you have read) is that there are a few posters who continually refer to the deeds and tones, yet not to the words being used or the meaning of the words or anything at all about the words. I've said it before "The only stucture people need is self-control", but it's not the only "thing" they need. An understanding of the context they are in is another big one... this requiures time and patience, something "chatting" doesn't allow.
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I'm sorry, Keiva. Did you say 145 times including misspellings, abbreviations; references before the name was coined, etc.?
I must have misunderstood. Surely you meant not including. I hope you didn't spend all the time necessary to find and count all the misspellings, abbreviations; references before the name was coined, etc. Did you make separate counts for the period before and the period after this unpleasantness began?
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a ways back, for you flat liners like me, Faldage responded to post of kieva's.. supposedly about general nastiness, and changes made to posts.. (kieva's post is even further back!)Look for Faldage's post by the subject title --unchanged.
(RE:The statement about these posts being toned down versions of the original merely taints the evidence with no way to verify for anyone who did not copy and save the originals
I invite anyone to look at that entire thread and decide if it shows a general tendency on the part of anyone towards nastiness.
kieva supplied the links, and he mention my name in the post with the links and mentions editing.
what i edited out was the word F***ed. i suggested the person who posted a commercial ad was like a rapist, who then came back, and asked us," well how do you want to be ******?"-- as if offers us a choise of how she should abuse us, was not abuse.
the line was crude. i didn't change the tenor of my post. i do and did feel golibear used AWAD Talk for an ad--which i thought to be rude, and spam. she did it at the very time, Anu, in his AWAD mailings (not the WAD, but the newsletter) was asking for sponsers. The newsletter does have some very low key ads, paid for by sponsers. (most recently one for a Nanny service as i recall)
so i didn't edit out anything signicant, just something crude. if you read the whole thread, and think i was nasty, so be it. but, as faldage points out, i didn't get harsh until golibear came back and suggested we tell her how to use AWAD talk to place her free ads--
But please, do read the whole thread.. my post are pretty far down the line.. it took quite a bit to provoke me. and to suggest, i made a major edit, is wrong.
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Typo corrected, faldage; you are in that quite correct. Thank you!
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Helen, no one suggested that you made a major edit of content: you quite properly adhered to your position. And you quite properly toned down language that you yourself agreed, upon reflection, was excessive. Good on you on both counts. Post-edit after LIU, to be specific on the compliment: Helen, you were mature enough to correct yourself when you concluded that you'd gone over the line (after all, nobody's perfect). And belM, I see that you did the same the next day, in the same thread, so the same compliment goes to you. Good on both you ladies. Faldage, I'd commend this as an example of how rudeness does indeed occur but can be well handled. http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=43881 (Helen on 10/18 at 18:49; belM the next day)
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Hi Guys, What's going on?
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I hope I'm not interrupting anything, I just wanted to ask Whitman a question...
Whit-O, who and what is "Your Happy Epeolatrist!"
Milo.
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O Great Sanctimonious
W'ON, per bartleby "sanctimony" means "hypocrital piety"; that is, acting contrary to one's professed principles.
I trust you can supply a cite to a pair of my posts -- one professing a principle, and one which you believe I am acting in conflict with that principle? (Either here or by PM will be fine.)
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>Could you please supply a pair of cites to my posts -- one professing a principle, and one which you believe to be in conflict with that principle?
"If you are unwillng to have your hurtful words seen -- if you would be ashamed to have others know you wrote them -- then don't write them."
Keiva
(addict)
Wed Oct 3 23:08:45 2001
bel, we are each of us imperfect, and there are times when each of us will act unkindly -- your strong post some time ago to shoshannah, for example. Could it be that you have perhaps overreacted here?
Such vehemence, in the past, drove shoshannah away from this board.
Shoshannah's last post:
Shoshannah
(member)
Sat Sep 22 08:21:10 2001
Re: around the world
Cap - hi and thanks for the welcome! I'm not really able to spend much time on this boad or anywhere on the net these days as my job with the Jerusalem Foundation keeps me very very busy! But this is an important time here and everywhere, so I took a peek at what folks were saying... which prompted my posting on this thread.
---------
and then there was the sad episode of your casting about to identify the "spammer", which culminated in your suggestion that it was Elizabeth, based on your shrewd discovery of her initials [E.A] appearing in one of the offending posts.
----
you've been quick to cry foul and quick to accuse ever since you arrived and discovered you couldn't be in control.
()
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Whit-O, who and what is "Your Happy Epeolatrist!"Sure, Milo...be glad to. I was hopin' someone would ask. Dr. Bill discovered an obscure word that every linguaphile should know: epeolatry: the worship of words There are only two citations listed on the entire web for it at OneLook... Forthright's, and our very own tswum's Worthless Word for the Day! So, a worshipper of words is an epeolatrist. And "Happy Epeolatrist" just popped out, I liked the way the words flowed together and rolled off the tongue...so there you are. And I decided to use it as my first-ever signature to help remind me of the true energy of AWAD...levity, words, and intellect (not necessarily in that order). Your Happy Epeolatrist!
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tsuwm, I do thank and commend you for basing your discussion on facts, not heated adjectives.
While I think your example (and Connie's elsewhere) is inapt, I'll defer responding until others have had opportunity to adduce any other examples they may have in mind. Please let me know whetther you would prefer that I respond to you here, or by PM.
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While I think your example (and Connie's elsewhere) is inapt, I'll defer responding...
...and that wasn't a response?
She's breaking up, Captain! I need more to the sheilds...
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IMHO = In my humble opinion ...
this
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something..
Just can't put my finger on what
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Too bad Ann ruined that. Ewein
Ann didn't ruin it. Kieva ruined his relationship with Ann, and as a result, Ann doesn't want him as a guest in her house.
Ann clearly states her reasons, and her thinking.. this should have been between Ann and Ken. ken has taken it public, and started the post with You crude, bullying children should be ashamed of yourselves.-- those are ken's words, that ken posted.. blaming god only know who.
the post ken made included a copy of a mail (not email) he went to the effort to type it all out again. (and we have to trust himthat he hasn't left anything out.)
so Ken went to a big effort to blame everybody, for something that one person did, and she did it because she seems to feel (and this if from reading her letter,) that ken might not get along with everyone, and would bring discord to her house. He certainly has brought discord to this place. he made an effort to bring discord. i wouldn't expect anything else from him in person.
i don't want to go to a party that is advesarial. it seems to me, that ken is uncomfortalbe unless things are advesarial-- I can only guess that is why he keeps behaving the way he does.
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! Good luck, Ann Baby, with your gathering. It should be really fun with all these pleasant sorts who are coming. I hope none of you are in humanitarian type jobs! Ewein
Excuse me, ewein...and you're condemning nastiness?
How dare you so maliciously insult the multitude of good people who inhabit this board when you don't even know any of them. You're including a lot of kind-hearted, loving people, here, like my good friends, Jackie, Rhuby, Jo, Connie, and so many others, that my eyes well-up with tears and ire that you would even consider saying this about them. And I'll suppose Keiva will either ignore or condone this nastiness as long as it's done in his defense. Enough said, ewein, please.
Your Happy Epeolatrist!
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Verzieh dich endlich Keiva!!!!!!
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Verzeihe meine Ausdrucksweise.
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...says ewein sarcastically. I commend you on your sarcastic post to an absurdity not that my commendation *means anything, however and unfortunately, this is one tool that language allows that most people don't use (some twisted sense of *conservatisim I don't have time for...) Thanks again! ...but what is IMHO? Sorry, but I am new. Why such an edge to your writing? Do you hate me already just because...Sorry this answer took so long, I have limited time, and my input is also limited (as has been nicely point out (in general))... In My Humble Opinion (IMHO) I support nothing aside from feeding my understanding of others (of which I know is lacking, as someone pointed out, also quite nicely recently, is subject to certain "technological limitations"). And my own sense of chaosHowever, my first initiative is to enjoy myself, (even Keiva knows that) and I expense myself faster than anyone here I suppose that is a subject for debate... but not in spite of! I hope this explains why you *feel my writing has an edge to it (I may be assuming you were directing that at me... correct me if I'm wrong)... yeh...life's a joke... and then you die... I make no difference between sarcasm and synicism (as the definitions may implore)... And I could not care less if they are misspelled...and don't take it personally when I say that "chatting" has "got to go"! Look at at what b'youthiful words have transpired here . I hate nobody, and especially not those that I don't *know How do ya like that as response... (I couldn't help it). But, when I sneeze, I like using the words "I hate e---verybody". [ps] I take the word "Guys" you used in the "general" sense, of course. Maybe not. [pps] Just in case anyone is "paying attention" to the time that this is posted  *that is how long it took me to read and absorb every last character of belligerentyouths posts, and I still don't "get it". edit - sorry for the "over 100 posting". As a "flatliner" I was responding to 'ewein' directly...
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