#63538
04/05/2002 11:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Yes, Anna, goodness knows i have been guilty, (in the past!) of turning threads from words to food.. and certainly, i enjoy a quick turn of phrase, that makes me laugh, and then makes me blush, but all to many threads these days, have allegedly witty comments, that are barbs, with scant wit, and nothing to do with the thread.
there are some shades of meanings, and some "mental tricks" that my mind plays with nude and naked. i have never been a model bet that's is no surprize!, but i have taken art classes -- human figures-- and drawn models. as the model drops her robe, and settles in to position, something strange happens... she loses her personhood, and becomes a thing. a living breathing human form. you don't see or react to the person, you react to the folds of the skin, the shadows, the muscles, and the fat, the wrinkles and the smoothness, the tone, and color.
at times it can be erotic, -- and yet there is a distance, so that i was almost embarassed that i notice how erotic the form was. Not that i was attracted to the model--rather, her cool demeanor allowed me to explore being visualy aroused. and while i am not talented, i have some skill, and the my drawing was the better for being aroused.
as to the word naked (or my sense of being naked.) it is more vunerable, but not helpless..-- and i think i could slip between being naked and nude, minute by minute.
its a good thing ashcroft isn't a member here at AWAD, or we would have big blue curtains, blocking out this thread!
and are there words for being partial underessed, that have the same strong emotions behind them, the way naked and nude do?
in skivies?
scantily clad?
full frontal nudity?
bare assed, bare breasted?
none of these evoke much of an emotional charge.. not like naked!
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#63539
04/06/2002 2:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear of troy: I see a comparison, yet a difference in the reaction of health care givers and artists toward nudity. Health people have to be temporarily oblivious to any thing erotic, while humbly aware of the beauty of God's creation. Artists have to concentrate so totally on the recording of the beauty there is no room in their thinking for the erotic.
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#63541
04/06/2002 3:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
the linkROMFL!!!  Hilarious, Ted! I don't know how you do it...but I'm certainly glad you can!!! LOL!
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#63542
04/06/2002 3:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279 |
Howya Whitty
Thanks a millin fer yer kind comments. The sad thing is that Loxy did actually open up such a din of equity across the road from Slasher's Bar (and Grill).
It's tuff been a teddy bear with that one around, I tell ya
Be seein ya
GallantTed
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#63543
04/06/2002 3:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
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I worked in the health care field for a very short time (not for me). But you do get very desensitized to the naked human body. I considered the patients naked. Very vulnerable. Not of their choosing. Cold.
Where nude to me indicates something softer. More natural and warm. And of one's will.
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#63544
04/06/2002 6:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
As a physician in residency I see a fair amount of unclothed people. (Or is that unclothed persons...?) I don't know if desenitized is the right word--I would say we in the medical field become accustomed to seeing people without their clothes on.
As far as noticing beauty,... I do, but that is not to say that I am thinking prurient thoughts. Rather, what I tend to notice is how the body changes with age and illness, and occasionally I see a younger patient and I am struck by their beauty and health. It is certainly a much wider concept of beauty than what I had as a teenager. And of course, there is beauty around besides the blush of youth.
Another interesting thing is that some patients can be only partially undressed and seem very much naked, while others are quite exposed but seem merely nude. Many veterans, for example, are comfortable undressing and being examined in private areas, but there are some who are not. Many of the women I have treated for breast cancer are somewhat uncomfortable with having their breast examined, but others are very relaxed. And of course, many patients are not comfortable even talking about medical matters pertaining to their most private bodily parts.
Often, uneducated people use words that are considered crass or vulgar when relating a problem, but of course they lack a wider vocabulary. Linguaphiles such as the members of this board would be much more likely to say "Doctor, I am having pain when I urinate," while a less educated person would perhaps say "Doc, it hurts when I p*ss." Others yet realize that p*ss is not a polite word, but they are at a loss for finding the "proper" word, and end up feeling embarassed.
I to try to make the naked patient feel merely nude, and to carefully introduce a subject in a way that shows that there is nothing to be ashamed of. But sometimes it's a lost cause and it can be rather comic.
I recently had a patient, a young woman who seemed reasonably educated, who had had rectal cancer. She had undergone an operation to remove most of her colon and rectum. She was left with a colostomy, and the anus had been completely sewed up as part of the operation. She told me she was having pain "where my butthole used to be." I tried to gently introduce the term "anus" or even "rectum" without coming across as too didactic or rude. But it was hopeless. Eveery time she had a check up she would use the word "butthole" and, honestly, it embarassed me. I never could get her to adopt what I considered a more "appropriate" term. I think my embarassment had a lot to do with my concept of class distinctions. The patient in question seemed to exhibit a contradiction between her vocabulary and her overall demeanor. Had it been a veteran who had served in the navy in WWII I probably could have easily fallen into a mode of discourse with him that was more relaxed and anything he said I could have taken in stride.
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#63545
04/06/2002 8:48 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I feel sorry for your patient with the colostomy. They are no fun at all, and if you're young they must be even worse. Life can certainly dish out the dirt, can't it?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#63547
04/07/2002 2:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
The cruel affliction of such a young person saddens us all. But think about the courage and perseverance required of the oncologists who must live day after day with the constant drain on their mental and emotional reserves of having to keep trying to help an endless succession of such patients.
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#63548
04/07/2002 2:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
But think about the courage and perseverance required of the oncologists who must live day after day with the constant drain on their mental and emotional reserves of having to keep trying to help an endless succession of such patients.
The professional trials and tribulations of a highly paid medical specialist don't even begin to compare with those of someone who has to live with the consequences of a colostomy, Bill. However, I will concede that an oncologist with a colostomy would receive my sympathy.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#63549
04/07/2002 2:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear CK Excuse me, but you are full of shit. If you think the oncologists don't get deeply involved with patients, no matter how hard they try to avoid it, you are seriously mistaken.
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#63550
04/07/2002 5:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
In reply to:
However, I will concede that an oncologist with a colostomy would receive my sympathy.
Well my sympathies go out to the person left holding the bag... There are times when clinic is so busy, however, that a Foley catheter and a temporary colostomy would be items of convenience!
But enough jesting. The patients I feel most sorry for are the terminally ill young adults. They are on the verge of the freedom of adulthood and they know they are never going to have it. They're never going to get married, go to Paris or London, have their own kids, publish a novel, play the role of Hamlet, discover a new species of jellyfish, see the Pyramids, graduate from West Point... Whatever their dreams are, they have lived long enough to dream them but not long enough to realize them. As pitiful as it is to see a very young child with a terminal illness, they don't quite know what they're missing compared to the young adult. (My opinion -- I could be wrong.) On the other hand, when you cure a patient's cancer you can feel good about being able to rescue all that possibility -- or at least feel good about having played a small part in its rescue.
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#63551
04/07/2002 7:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Bill, no matter how deeply the specialists "get involved" with their patients, at the end of the day they can go home and don't have to live with the direct consequences of the illnesses the patients have. An oncologist worried about a patient with a colostomy doesn't even begin to have a problem in comparison with the problems the patient with the colostomy has. Get real. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#63552
04/07/2002 10:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4 |
Is it significant, MG, that you waited for your 100th post to "come out"?
Also, I wonder about your name, Modest Goddess. One who describes herself as a "Modest Goddess" is asserting how she wishes to be perceived, not who she is. I may call myself "Adonis" and, by any objective standard, upon comparison with the physical attributes of other men, I may be admirably truthful, but I would not be "modest".
"Modesty" is not the same thing as "humility", of course. "Modesty" is an affectation and, therefore, inherently dishonest. "Humility", on the other hand, is like verdigris on a bronze statue. It develops with age. You might call it the wisdom of the bronze.
Verdigris, like moss etching the features of a stone, has a depth of character, albeit undesigned, which grows beyond the hand or vision of the artist.
"Humility" is like that, wouldn't you say, MG? It is a resonance with truth encountered beneath the surface, an etching of the unconscious beyond the will of its host. In humility, we all apprehend, instinctively, a natural beauty, do we not, a grace one cannot be born into, quite unlike the beauty of a flower, or a nude model posing for an audience.
I wonder if this is the beauty Keats was thinking of so famously, MG. "Beauty is truth, truth beauty. This is all we know of life, and all we need to know."
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#63554
04/07/2002 5:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,605 |
Semperon, let me quote something said earlier:
Did you have to wake dogs that were nappin'?
Did you have to get just one more slap in?
When you got the notion
To re-stir commotion,
You ought to have thought what would happen.
It's a shame that you never consult,
Before dragging in words that insult.
Can you leave it alone?
When you picked at that bone,
What did you think would result?
I'm willing to let us forget it.
Just leave it; don't trouble to edit.
But if you again flame dear,
It's not me to blame dear:
If you seek a fight, you will get it.
This is the third time I've responded with rhymed humor to attacks on mod-god. There will not be a fourth time. If quiet humor will not restrain you, then one must be more forceful -- on your head be it.
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#63555
04/07/2002 6:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4 |
Dear Keiva, I can assure you that there are no "tactics" in my employ.
Altho I am new to this Board, I have been around long enough to observe that ASp and Musick are not universally regarded as authorities on proper practice. In fact, it seems you are fresh from a dispute with Musick on a matter of personal conduct yourself. I have no interest in meddling in that muddle, Keiva. I am simply appealing to your sense of fair play.
As for "Modest Goddess", if she has something to say, I am sure she will say it for herself. One can ride to the rescue of a fair damsel, but one is not always rewarded for the effort. Your chivalry is picturesque but unwarranted, dear sir.
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#63556
04/07/2002 6:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
I thank you for your judgment as to when individuals should be supported in the face of attack, and when left to fend for themselves. Having been the attackee and knowing how that feels, I do feel well-positioned to exercise my own judgment, of course giving all due consideration (but not binding effect) to your views.
In this particular case we had a pooh-bah critiquing a new member. I am near enough in time to the latter status to well remember how that feels.
Is there not ample precedent here that two (or many more) people may speak to the same side of a dispute -- as was most recently done without objection when a fair number of folks commented forcibly on my behavior? Sauce for the goose, you know.
But your point is calmly expressed, for which I thank you. May I call you "Adonis"?
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#63557
04/07/2002 7:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
well put semperon.
you comments, well, they could be called a bit strong.. but they are out in public, and very politely phrased, and our modest godess seem to be a person in touch with her self, and able to stand up for her self.
as to her modesty, (or anyone modesty) clothing, or the lack of it, does not in and of its self make one modest. I know, with a nude model, i do not see the person, only the body. when our godess models, she does not strut her stuff, but rather almost the oposite, she remove not only her clothes, but her personality.. she becomes a form. it has to be, i think, one of the most self effacing activities around.
and she has only slowly made indication of her skill with words. she mentions her $100 yearly royalty check, for the writers union, payment for all the time her books have been checked out of the library. but she hasn't yet plugged her book-- but these are just my thoughts.
i don't think our godess needs me to defend her, and i don't even think your words are anything that she need to mount a defence against.
we have at had some threads, where we have shared some personal information, including clues and open statements about our 'handles'-- or self chosen names.
your early post verged on that subject. semperon semper on
always on... always logged in? (if so, you hid the fact)
always on.. on drugs? on call?
you never sleep? or take meals? calls of nature don't call you away from your computer? and even if you are always on line, you're not always on AWAD.
forget being adonis (and here's a tip, i don't look anything at all like helen of troy!) but do tell us about being always on.
discussions about abstract concepts, like the nature of time, have been some of the most wonderful thread going.
maybe, we should have a thread about the nature of modesty, or humility, or even beauty. there are many, and some we have touched upon, tsuwm short essay on the spirit is a fine example.
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#63558
04/07/2002 8:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4 |
May I call you Adonis?
I prefer "Abdonis". [Just putting in a plug for my next million dollar idea.]
P.S. I intended no offence to "Modest Goddess" and I hope she took none. I thought I was taking her issue, the distinction between appearing nude and feeling naked, seriously.
It occurred to me that one's self-perception goes to the heart of MoGo's issue, and, so long as we are taking it all off in public (so to speak), it occurred to me that we should speak the naked truth.
Whatever "Modest Goddess" is, she is not "modest". And certainly that is not because she poses in the nude. That is because she has styled herself the "Modest Goddess". That is her nom de plume. If I saw it up in lights over a Men's Club, I might buy her a beer.
In my opinion, dear Keiva, modesty is highly over-rated. The meek may inherit the earth but they can't escape the glass ceiling. I for one am happy to see MoGo shorn of her tiresome pretence. I suspect it must be a relief for MoGo as well. She should know we accept her just as she is.
Besides, we have seen Modest Goddess handle herself under fire, dear Keiva, and she needs no-one's protection. So, let's relax and enjoy the show.
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#63559
04/07/2002 8:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
A hearty welcome semperon! ...musick have recently objected to this tactic... Nowhere in that post do I say that I object. Your inability to understand should have taught you to stop interpreting by now. What did I tell you about taking my words out of context?  Now were talking about language, aren't we!  ...Musick are not universally regarded as authorities on proper practice. You are so beautifuly truthful with those words, I'm gonna cry! As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as "proper practice" in a general sense. Yours is yours, and mine is mine (and sometimes it's Keiva's when he's trying to figure out what I'm saying). But always the twain shall meet! Kinda like "nude" and "naked".
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#63560
04/07/2002 8:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
Semperon, welcome aBoard. I hope you enjoy it as much as we do and plan to stick around. Whew! What a thread to come out on! If I had my hat on, it would be off to you.
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#63561
04/07/2002 8:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,409 |
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#63562
04/07/2002 11:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,070 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,070 Likes: 2 |
Before we get any more carried away here, let me say that I've never assumed that in the profferred name of "Modest Goddess" there was an implication of modesty or of godlike appearance, necessarily. Could be gentle irony, or wishful thinking, or tongue-in-cheek, or completely the opposite of actuality, as well as the "real" thing. Maybe even more likely.
No need to ascribe qualities based on the name - it is, after all, only a nom-de-plume.
Let's not take ourselves too literally, perhaps?
What's in a name?
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet...
(Oh, you know the rest)
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#63563
04/07/2002 11:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,409 |
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#63564
04/07/2002 11:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47 |
To Wofahulicodoc:
Thank the Lord you came up with the truth. Dang it's just a kooky name she chose and man oh man she is probably great looking naked or nude (and can we all say that about ourselves)..well...heh, heh I can.
Hey, I'm just trying to get to 25 posts so I can be invited to the Word-o-rama in Michigaan or is it Minnesota?
Stir, stir...
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#63565
04/08/2002 12:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
THIRD LIMERICK
--by Ogden Nash
Two nudists of Dover,
Being purple all over,
Were munched by a cow
When mistaken for clover.
© 1947 by Ogden NashYour Happy Epeolatrist!
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#63566
04/08/2002 12:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,605 |
Hey, I'm just trying to get to 25 posts so I can be invited to the Word-o-ramaWarning, MLC: anyone with fewer than 100 posts will be required to perform embarrassing silly stunts, sing feelthy songs, and carry the bags of the august personages. Now who was chairperson of the hazing committee, and when can we expect your proposal for appropriate activities?
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#63567
04/08/2002 3:35 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
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#63568
04/08/2002 3:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
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addict
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Posts: 477 |
Call me Tenzing Norge
OK, Tenzing... whatever you like. But seriously ... duh what? Huh? I'm not getting where this fits in to the discussion, sorry.
I'm not trying to be rude, or nasty or nuthin', but it really helps to include something in reference to what you are replying to. (See Max Q's appeal in the I&A forum.)
Hev
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#63569
04/08/2002 4:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47 |
"Duh...what...huh?"
I apologize, I was referring to the post immediately preceding mine written by Keiva, mate. Perhaps you didn't understand I was referring to Sir Edmund Hillary's expedition to Mt. Everest. Tenzing Norge was a sherpa who on the first expedition was a porter and carried the bags.
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#63570
04/08/2002 11:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
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Posts: 688 |
Well, guess more congrats are in order MLC...you are now a Newbie!
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#63571
04/08/2002 1:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 279 |
Pages in this thread:1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8|(show all)
Ya see fokes, the answer was there all along!
GT
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#63572
04/08/2002 8:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Oh, I assume, then, you mean Tenzing Norgay.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#63573
04/08/2002 8:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Adventure: Reference Information and Activities - VisitNepal.com
... Expeditions. Sponsor. Mt. Everest and other numerous peaks have been climbed many
times now. Tenzing Norge Sherpa (pictured in banner above) and Edmund Hillary ...
http://www.visitnepal.com/adventure/reference.htm
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#63574
04/08/2002 8:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,605 |
Excuse me, but this thread's concept of a nude/naked explorer on Mt. Everest is rather chilling.
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#63575
04/08/2002 8:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
only place in the world where you can create yellow stalagmites.
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#63576
04/08/2002 9:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 6,511 |
Quite possibly his name has been transliterated both ways. Neither is necessarily "more correct" than the other, is it? [scratching head]
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#63577
04/08/2002 9:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 47 |
Spelling of Tenzing Norge/ Tenzing Norgay.
You better believe before I put a WORD on any of these threads that I look up everything first. It is spelled both ways.
It's chilling.
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