#62629
03/27/2002 2:49 PM
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Usually I'm pretty dense about noticing things that are very obvious to most everyone else. Even when I do notice something, I usually forget within a few minutes.
So, I was watching Smallville the other evening and Clark Kent's daddy, Johnathon Kent, played by John Schneider was driving in his pickup truck while listening to the theme song from Dukes of Hazzard on the radio. Interestingly (to me anyways), Schneider also played Bo Duke on the Dukes of Hazzard.
(I learned to read from comics, and I'm thrilled to be able to watch superman with my kids.)
I remember a few years back when Kasparov was playing Karpov for the world title, things were getting really tense. The competition had dragged on for weeks and these guys were getting frazzled. So they decide to have a break. Kasparov is boarding a plane and is asked whether he and Anatoly Karpov are doing as bad as all that. Without a pause he quips, "As the great Russian writer once said, 'The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.'"
I puzzled over this for some while, since I believed this was a quote from Mark Twain. After a little reflection, it occurred to me that the average Russian has probably read as much or more Mark Twain than the average American, and that a well-read Russian (as I presume GK to be) probably knows a lot more about Twain. Further, it was pretty clear that he would have to know that we would know this. My vague recollection is that Karpov was the Soviets' golden boy, and Kasparov was a pain for not doing the decent thing and letting him win. And I reckon this was Kasparov's way of tweaking authorities without being too obvious about it.
Makes me wonder how many things just go sailing past unnoticed.
k
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#62630
03/27/2002 3:55 PM
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...a well-read Russian (as I presume GK to be) probably knows a lot more about Twain. another possibility is that Kasparov was as ill-read as Bobby Fischer apparently was, and was the victim of some bizarro agitprop. http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#62631
03/27/2002 4:09 PM
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Possible, but unlikely. Kasparov may be strange, but he manifests his strangeness differently than Fischer. He's a polyglot and a mathematician. He's also pretty gregarious. He used to be something of an activist (not that that's a credential, I suppose). Maybe as an Armenian Jew in Russia, he was a little less apt to take things at face value.
k
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#62632
03/27/2002 8:57 PM
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the average Russian has probably read as much or more Mark Twain than the average American
I find that very difficult to believe. It's been said that Mark Twain was the first truly and purely American writer, and he's still probably the most distinguished as such. I really doubt that Russian school children are required to read Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. Why would the average Russian care about a Missouri boy's trip down the Mississippi with a runaway slave? The book simply drips with American cultural history.
Unless the Soviets skewed Twain into a communist poster-boy, I can't see how they would be more interested in him than Americans.
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#62633
03/27/2002 9:22 PM
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I dunno. Grapes of Wrath was supposedly pretty popular over there as well.
I guess I don't think most Americans have actually read that much Twain. Read or heard about, yes. Actually read the words of, I don't think so. Most kids are going to read what's required in school, if that. I've read some Twain, but was never required to read it in any class. Mind you, he was mention in many classes. But we never read any.
OTOH, I get my info concerning Soviet reading habits from a single conversation with a fellow who told me he's quite popular over there, so I've reached a conclusion based on anecdotal evidence. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that GK was well aware of his life's work and that his remark was intended as a jibe.
k
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#62634
03/27/2002 11:20 PM
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Dear FF: I was fortunate that my father bought a lousy Collier's Encyclopedia in early 1920's. I feel confident he only bought the encyclopedia to get the almost hundred volumes of Mark Twain that came with it. I wish I still had that set.
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#62635
03/28/2002 10:24 AM
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Possible, but unlikely. Kasparov may be strange, but he manifests his strangeness differently than Fischer. He's a polyglot and a mathematician. He's also pretty gregarious.
He used to be something of an activist (not that that's a credential, I suppose). Maybe as an Armenian Jew in Russia, he was a little less apt to take things at face value.
When Kasparov played Nigel Short in London in 1993 it received a lot of coverage on Channel 4. During the 'intervals' the producers ran histories and bios of the two players. Here's what I remember about Kasparov. What you say above is absolutely true - he was a boy genius and never tired of learning. He was an Armenian Jew but he became Russian towards the end of the Soviet era and now has Russian citizenship. Being a polyglot, gregarious and a strategic thinker he was recruited as a senior adviser to the Soviet inner circle - a role he still maintains with Mr. Putin and his predecessor Boris Yeltsin.
Kasparov is well read and likes to broaden his knowledge with all forms of world literature and Twain would have been a natural choice since he was coincident with the other classic novelists such as Dumas, Hardy, Dickens, Tolstoy et al. For such a clear thinker it is hard to envisage how he made such a mistake when misquoting Twain. It could not be put down to fatigue or distraction. Kasparov leads a spartan life and is slave to his routine. A luxury apartment with only simple fittings, not married, no television or radio and he sleeps for only five hours a day whilst playing up to twelve hours of chess a day. He's a healthy eater (he doesn't smoke or drink) but not an exerciser. All his other waking hours are spent reading or advising.
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#62636
03/28/2002 10:33 AM
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I guess I don't think most Americans have actually read that much Twain. Read or heard about, yes. Actually read the words of, I don't think so. Most kids are going to read what's required in school, if that. I've read some Twain, but was never required to read it in any class. Mind you, he was mention in many classes. But we never read any.
I read Twain at school when I was fourteen and was absolutely flummoxed by the dialect. After watching several several films and series about Huckleberry Finn I was aware of the story but the book opened my eyes to a whole new language. For a school text it was very long and quite unusual given its irrelevance to our society but I ploughed through it regardless. That's twenty years ago now and I can remember little of the content but there are two words that appear on the first page that fascinated me from the moment I saw them and they are forever embedded in my mind. Sugar Hogsheads. I just loved them. I was surprised when I discovered their true meaning but I never did find out how it came about.
Twain's writing is truly American but that's where the fascination lies with me - that the writing is in a familar language but a completely different style and culture than anything I have ever read. A few years ago I bought his collection of short stories and was pleasantly surprised that they are far more readable and entertaining than his novels. Sharply humourous too, which is what I like.
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#62637
03/28/2002 1:03 PM
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Re: Jazzo's comment It's been said that Mark Twain was the first truly and purely American writer
i think Washington Irving was the first. born 1783, and dead in 1859, (when Twain was 24) he was the first american writer to earn a living by writing-- (Twain could have done the same, but for poor investments. ) Irving became quite wealthy, and took a post as US ambassador to Spain.
most US reader know his "Rip Van Winkle" and "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", some even realize he popularized the term "Knickerbockers" (still use by the NY basketball team, the Knicks,)in a series of articles for a NY magazine. he was the first to start the legend that Columbus was remarkable for not thinking the world was flat. (the same magazine column.) He also wrote a serious history of columbus's voyages.
i will agree Twain is read today by a much wider audience, and N. Hawthorn does too, but the first truly and purely American is Irving.
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#62638
03/28/2002 1:28 PM
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absolutely flummoxed by the dialect.
I have trouble imagining you being flummoxed by a dialect considering your facility in detecting the various elements in mine in our brief meeting, but I guess, from small beginnings...
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#62639
03/28/2002 1:52 PM
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I have trouble imagining you being flummoxed by a dialect considering your facility in detecting the various elements in mine in our brief meeting, but I guess, from small beginnings...Indeed. You've hit the nail on the head there, Faldage. Twenty years ago my current interest in identifying dialects was born with my aforementioned fascination and things progressed from there. I once was flummoxed but now am profound.  I love turning things on their head aswell now by trying to identify the sources of those dialects - as I did with you. I've found that a lot of 'New worlders' will use various slang words specific to their ancestors even if only within their immediate family. A lot of Scots-Americans will say 'aye' without even knowing it and, if you watch the Coens' film Fargo, you'll notice that the characters (all of them descended from Swedish settlers) speak with a pseudo-Swedish accent. Post-edit. Just realised that I've become addicted. Oh, God!
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#62640
03/28/2002 2:49 PM
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Thanks, Rubrick,
I didn't know he was an advisor to an inner circle, though I have some vague recollection that he wrote for a US newspaper for a while. That's an interesting fact to fit into my internal mosaic of him.
I'd heard he was going to Israel to set up a chess school and incorrectly assumed he would be staying, so that's where I thought his citizenship was.
k
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#62641
03/28/2002 2:55 PM
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Cool thing for a dad to do, Bill. Almost a hundred volumes is a lot of Mark Twain.
I felt bad that I'd never read any and I'd hate to leave this earth without at least a taste of every item on the buffet. I made a point of reading a number of his short stories and one of the novels. I have the others and they're on my list. I also read a few to my kids. Every time my 12 yo hears about france, she says to me, "Daddy, do you remember in the Jumping Frog of Calaveras County, where he said he 'heisted himself up like a Frenchman?'"
k
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#62642
03/28/2002 3:18 PM
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Dear FF: one thing that really burns me up is the fact that the "politically correct" assholes have been able to get Mark Twain's books removed from school libraries. Just because he uses the 'N" word he is accused of being racist. I will never forget the impact it had on me when I first read the passage where Jim and Huck are going down the river, and Huck is waked up during the niight by sound of Jim crying, and for the first time realizes how awful it was for Jim to be separated from his wife. No racist would write like that.
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#62643
03/28/2002 5:04 PM
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Bill,
I don't know the exact situation regarding MT in schools. I used to read up on book banning and censorship, but my knowledge is not current and my memory is very hazy.
I guess I think that people should have some say over what their kids read. I'm pretty liberal in what I share with my own kids. Heck, I read 100 Secret Senses with the F word and all that in it to mine. I allow my kids to curse (with some modest restrictions like they can't cuss in public) and the very first movie I took my youngest to (at 4 yo) was rated R (something like "the last dragon" with Sean Connery as the voice of the dragon). But it's exactly because I want (demand) the right to raise my kids according to my own conscience, that I believe that other parents should have the same right. For those people who really do find MT offensive, I think schools should make allowance for it. I don't agree with their assessment of MT and don't for one second believe the book is racist. Rather, he's portraying a racist society. We know this because we've actually read it.
I try not to make any judgement at all of those other parents' choices and hope that they will extend me the same courtesy. Rather than try to foist my opinions (that every kid should get a healthy dose of MT, for example) on these others, I would like a school that would accomodate these other parents. And I really think it would be easy to do, if we would try to be a little patient with each other. No need to draw lines in the sand. To the maximum extent possible, I think we should try to facilitate instead of mandate.
Now, if the books have actually been removed from a school library, that's very different. Even if MT's writings were racist, they would still belong in the libraries. Song of Hiawatha is certainly racist. (And if I remember, the one about the village smithy was antisemitic.) Kipling was absolutely a racist. And no school library should be without Longfellow or Kipling.
In a more modern case, I think Harry Potter is a great story for kids to read, even in class (particularly in class). But I know some parents think it teaches the occult and for them I think provisions should be made. Regardless of whether some parents are offended, HP should be in the school libraries.
There's a difference between what kids should be required to read and what should be available to all kids in the school or public library. Now I'm an atheist. I don't care what other people believe, but I know what I believe. I wouldn't mind a teacher, say, using the bible in a class, but if they started preaching or something I'd get irritated pretty quickly. Nevertheless, I'd be somewhat surprised (and would make loud complaint) if there were no bibles in my kids' school library.
Probably this subject is a YART, but I'm not aware it's been discussed since I've been here.
To summarize, I agree with you about MT. He should be in every public school library. And he should be read by all kids. He does have some works that no one should find offensive. I think even his "offensive" works are not racist and would hope every kid would get a taste of them. But I wouldn't want to force any kid to do something against his parents' wishes.
k
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#62644
03/28/2002 5:15 PM
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if I remember, the one about the village smithy was antisemitichttp://www.bartleby.com/102/59.html???
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#62645
03/28/2002 5:51 PM
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Dear FF: I can't imagine what made you think The Village Blacksmith antisemitic. And I would be interested to have you give a bit of detail as to what "atheistic" means to you.
The Biblical "God" who is just an immensely powerful human is of course absurd. But those who think the world came about by chance are just as absurd. Chance builds up briefly but soon tears down again. I cannot understand how anyone can believe there is no Supreme Being. He is just too marvelous for us to comprehend.
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#62646
03/28/2002 6:02 PM
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Thanks, that's not the one I was thinking of, so it's not the one about the smithy.
I just did a search and can't find the particular one. It's been about 25 years and I'm wondering now if I've confused the author. I'd be tempted to retract, except I have this very clear recollection of a very short poem - no more than about 12 to 14 lines, maybe, that was in the same book with Hiawatha.
It does seem possible though, that I misunderstood the reference in the other poem and got myself worked up over nothing.
Okay, let me drop this one for now and concentrate on Hiawatha. I loved the poem - one of my all time favorites. But I thought it was pretty racist (maybe that's not the right term, people seem to use that word for everything these days). At least it was seriously condescending - offensive even. Still, I loved it. And even if I didn't love it, I think it should be in school libraries, but that, say, native american kids shouldn't be compelled to read it.
k
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#62647
03/28/2002 6:40 PM
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Bill,
As I mentioned to Faldage, I got the wrong poem. Smithy must have been the one I really liked and I confused it with the other one that grated.
Regarding the atheism thing, it's not important to my point. Just an example. Let me make it general. I think X. I teach my kids X. I have no problem with other people (teachers, for example) reinforcing X to my kids. And since I think I'm right, on some level I think it would be good if other people taught X to their kids, but I know there are people who believe X' (not X). And so, if other parents find X really offensive, I wouldn't want to do an end run around them and try to teach their kids X against their wishes. (Because I wouldn't like it if they did that to me.)
There's a distinction between what I believe we should read, what I think we should compel others to read, and what I think we should have available for everyone to read.
As for the ultimate orgins of the Universe, I claim utter ignorance. I do distinguish among a. personal deity (as espoused in the Bible, the Quran, etc), b. naturalistic (mystical?) versions (Spinoza, Einstein, etc), and c. the general versions of creator and/or commander-in-chief. I reject 'a' outright. I don't even understand 'b' and as for 'c' I think my belief one way or the other would be irrelevant. I'm sympathetic to religion, though. I think that people can control what they profess and how they act, but that for the most part they can't control what they actually believe.
k
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#62648
03/28/2002 9:22 PM
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Re: ....At least it was seriously condescending - offensive even.... native american kids (say), shouldn't be compelled to read it.
if i omitted all the literature that was seriously condescending to women, i wouldn't have much to read.
writers, generaly write of their time... if literature is read, and explored, and put into context, it can still have value, no matter that it is, by our current way of thinking, seriously flawed.
Woman, the irish, poles, urkranians, negros, jews, blacks, chinese, japanese, aboriginal people from the americas, oz, india, the list of those slighted, and treated offensively goes on and on.. (the idea that literture classes consist of works entirely by and about dead white men has some validity!)
shakespeare is exceptional, he has both weak and strong men and women.. i don't think kipling would have included women at all, but his characters did need someone to be weak, and weepy, and to do their menial tasks like laundry, (but half the time is was a man-servant)-- and then you needed women to miss(sweet hearts back in england, lost and gone) or native women (hot, beautiful, and convenient for men to satisfy their lust with (but most of his characters where gentlemen, and wouldn't think to do that!, i'll grant)
even Harry Potter has Hermonine(?)-- a goody two shoes, nerdy, little tattle tale!
Dickens has great women-- a real wide range of characters from Dora, David Copperfields clinging, passive agressive wife, to Mdm LaFarge-- Twain doesn't! Polly and Tom's Aunt Bea are weak women, who look to men to solve their problems!
You might find with your daughters, as you look for books for them, there are very few with strong women (the exception is books written by women, about women, and generally considered for women.)
girls and women continue to read Little Women, or the Bronte sisters, or as we have discussed here Mrs Mike -- but woman's literature is still considered second tier. women still read all literature, men just read literature writen by men (a general statement-- just generaly true, not completely true.)
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#62649
03/28/2002 10:11 PM
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I agree that I don't want to limit my own readings to things that aren't Xist. I was specifically referring to what we force other people's kids to read.
I'm one of those men who reads mostly male writers. I don't plan it. It just turns out that way. Well, I guess I do plan it in a way. There are women writers on my list, but they keep getting pushed to the bottom.
I suppose I could remedy that. I recently collected all the scraps of paper I had written down books on and was going to consolidate them, but the washing machine got to them before I did. My new list is pretty short and if I were inclined I reckon I could move some women up there. But I really try to keep on top the stuff that I'm really most interested in. For example, War and Peace I've been meaning to read for years and also Pride and Prejudice. But I've wanted to read W&P a lot longer. I started a coupla times and got sidetracked. That's really gonna be next. Then I'm thinking Longitude, but I'm not sure. Then maybe Frankenstein (hey, there's a woman). Assuming that's my order. It might not be. P&P is a ways down on the list, even the new one. If I get to her, it will be an accident really.
It would be good if I could read faster. I have pretty good comprehension, but I read very slowly. I guess I could read a little faster (not much), but I just don't enjoy things much when I do.
For my kids, I don't usually think about the role of the women, with one exception. I can't stand the beautiful, happy princess kinda stories. They're allowed to read them, but they know already that I'm not reading it to them. Usually I think about whether the story is going to be interesting to all of us. My girls have read some of the Little Women excerpts (I guess that's what they are). As I said, I don't really censor what the girls read. When we come across something stupid, we'll often discuss what was stupid about it. Don't you think so-and-so was a jackass? What could this person have done besides act like a bonehead? OTOH, I make a point to brainwash them pretty regularly about *something important*. At least once a week, I talk to them about sex, peer pressure, hormones, drugs, not waiting for a man or anyone else to solve your problems, what have you. Lotta repeats, so they get it all many times. Maybe that's insufficient. It's one thing to say "See this woman is a wimp" and another to let them see how a strong woman acts. On take-your-daughters to work day, I brought them to a meeting where my bosses were two women. I wanted them to see how women could boss men around. I'm not entirely oblivious to the issue. I suppose a little reading to reinforce it would be in order, if I could find something that we're all interested in. The reading thing is more of a bonding thing than an educational one. From the school's persective it's educational. But I've noticed behavioral changes depending on how frequently I read to them. I don't know. I need to think about this a while.
k
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#62650
03/28/2002 10:30 PM
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Dear FF: I re-read P&P recently and reluctantly concluded I did not admire it. Her Mr. Darcy is a phony stuffed shirt in my estimation. He may be JA's idea of Prince Charming. One other thing. I just don't believe novelists' assertion that anybody falls instantly deeply in love. Not if they have any brains.
Little Women doesn't hide the propaganda well enough. I get a laugh out of the part where the girls take some lobsters "to the poor Irish children" to show their charitable consciousness. Rough, but nourishing, you know. Cheap then, but stupidly expensive now.
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#62651
03/29/2002 6:06 AM
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Faldage posted: if I remember, the one about the village smithy was antisemitichttp://www.bartleby.com/102/59.html???Faldo, maybe he meant anti-smith-etic. You can see how the two might be confused!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#62652
03/29/2002 2:47 PM
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I've noticed there are a lot of things that are supposed to be really good that didn't do all that much for me. Even when I think the book is great on some technical level, or enjoyable at parts, I think it's been oversold.
Now I read Joyce's Ulysses a few months back. There were some pretty funny parts, but on the whole I've spent more comforting hours in my dentist's chair. Probably more than half of the book I spent wondering what in the hell he was talking about.
I've heard people talk about it and few lit majors seemed pretty impressed, but I read it because Robert Anton Wilson said no one had entered the twentieth century until he'd digested that great lump of tree flesh. I'd never read anything of RAW's, but a guy I respect has a high opinion of him. So I thought, what the heck. This must be 'a great book.' And maybe it is. But if I had to describe my experience with it in one word, it would have to be "agonizing."
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#62653
03/29/2002 6:10 PM
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more than half of the book I spent wondering what in the hell he was talking about.
I think with Joyce you have to concern yourself not with what the hell he's talking about but with how the hell he's talking about it.
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#62654
03/29/2002 6:25 PM
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If you enjoy puzzles, there are all too many books that provide them. But none of the solutions to the puzzles are worth the effort. There is so much worth learning, I choose not to waste time on puzzles.
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#62655
03/29/2002 7:39 PM
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The (one) problem with being sensitive to parents' wishes about what their children will be "forced" by their school to read is that so many viewpoints abound that there is nothing that somebody somewhere doesn't find objectionable. Where then are Authorities to find material for a reading list which is offensive to no one and yet still contains literature? (Isn't that just another roundabout metaphor for "Politics as usual"?)
Oversimplified, unfortunately, but inescapable.
This just _has_ to be YART
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#62656
03/29/2002 8:23 PM
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Ah, Bill, I love puzzles. Not all of them, but some of them. But it's like eating crawdads - you reckon at the start you're going to burn more calories getting through the shell than you'll gain from eating the meat. Also, there are some professions where solving puzzles is a good way to keep sharp. It's like getting to the interesting part without all the tedious junk that accompanies most real-world problems.
People read for different reasons. Many read to figure out how to do something. They also read for enjoyment, for enlightenment, for participation in humanity's conversation (bonding writ large). Maybe there are other reasons. Boredom? Showing off? Desperation? Pursuit of a good grade? 'Cause Daddy will tan my backside if I don't?
Anyways, I've moved Dubliners down near the bottom, which I reckon I'll reach in about 70 years.
k
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#62657
03/29/2002 8:25 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
The (one) problem with being sensitive to parents' wishes about what their children will be "forced" by their school to read is that so many viewpoints abound that there is nothing that somebody somewhere doesn't find objectionable. Where then are Authorities to find material for a reading list which is offensive to no one and yet still contains literature? (Isn't that just another roundabout metaphor for "Politics as usual"?)
There used to be a column in my Sunday paper's literary section which asked well-known writers a series of questions. One of those questions was:
What books shoudl be made compulsory reading?
The writers were nearly all unanimous in their declaration that No books shoudl be made compulsory!
I agree with this. Whereas I quite enjoyed a selection of the books I read at school until I was about 15 I swear I will never look at Wuthering Heights or Castle Rackrent again. Same goes for a lot of the Shakespearean plays but they were a bit dull anyway.
A continuous assessment on a selection of recommended reading books would have whet my appetite for more.
Now I believe that the next point was what makes recommended or acceptable reading? Well, up until not so long ago even the recommended reading books in this part of the world were being fiercely doctored and censored by ignorant parents who were blaming them for their daughters' pregnancies (of course it had nothing to do with that randy farmer who had just drunk ten pints). But I digress....
People will find fault with every sort of book that's written - even the most intentionally harmless novels are seen as debasing or sexist or racist or sectarian or whatever. No book is acceptable to everyone. That's been pointed out quite a lot on this very forum using Mark Twain as an example.
I like Twain and his humour and his very observant views and deft handling of the tough and often violent and lawless place that was the mississipi mid-west in the latter part of the 19th century. We don't like the 'n'-word and avoid it these days as it is unacceptable, unnecessary and 'politically incorrect' (a term I particularly despise). However, in Twain's time it was common, as were slavery, lynchings, misogyny and bigotry and he includes it in his writing to reflect the contemporary languge of the day even if he did not use it himself or agree with it. Jim Conrad and his several books on the subjects of slavery, piratry and hard-living on the high seas is another example.
I've been dying to say it for ages but Eric Blair (better known as George Orwell) was a policeman in Burma for several years. He eventually quit as he could not endure the racism and hatred inflicted by the East India Company on the natives. Blair was completely anti-racist and he describes his feelings (and those of the bigots) in the excellent Burma days. Not a lot of racist language in his text but the feeling you get when you read the conceited dialogue of the British officers is akin to hearing the worst racist slurs. It made my spine bristle, anyways. Blair managed to convey these emotions to paper without ever giving the impression that they were his own. That is true genius. I digress again....
Recommended reading material shoudl contain a broad range of widely read material from various ethnic writers. Since they are well-read then they are acceptable to the masses. Since they are from different ethnic groups it will encourage learning and understanding of different ethnic groups, cultures and backgrounds. And, if they are based on wide-ranging issues (either contemporary or historical) then they will inspire debate. And that is good.
That's my rant for this month!! Boy it felt good!
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#62658
03/29/2002 8:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
there is nothing that somebody somewhere doesn't find objectionable.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, wofa. To my shame, I have no idea whether my children's school system has banned certain things or not. I do know that, every so often, they'll bring home a slip that says, in effect, "The class is going to be studying XYZ. XYZ has ABC in it, that some parents in the past have found objectionable. If you do, we have an alternate work available."
I wonder, FF, if perhaps the reason you tend not to read women writers is that so often they tend to focus on emotional interactions, just as in conversations*? I think you guys, in general, tend to want to focus on the deed getting accomplished, and have less interest in the why. Note: I am not asserting that this is the way most women write--I've never made a conscious comparison. I do know that, to me, "romance novels" are not worth reading, and even in "real" novels, I can only take so much of 'Mary was in a dark mood, wondering if her love had deserted her'.
*Yeah, okay, I do this myself, but...it depends on who I'm talking to. I do pretty good "guy talk" when I want to!:-)
And I can keep my mouth shut, too, if that seems to be my companion's way. Silence doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather people take my silence as indicative that I am a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt. Though I've done that, too, on occasion...sigh.
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#62659
03/29/2002 11:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
the one about the village smithy: http://www.bartleby.com/102/59.htmlThe first two lines were particularly well-liked by we college lads who enjoyed visiting the ladies at Smith college, an all-female institution. ["Under the standing chestnut tree ... ] Ah, Longfellow!
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#62660
03/30/2002 12:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Yes, i almost agree-- Rubrick, about compulsory reading list..i think they are OK if 1) they are short (one book a grade perhaps) 2) if it is okay to open dislike the book.
"Little women" was compulsory in 6th grade for me. (age 11/12) i hated it. I mean, i didn't think myself too poor, and here were these girls, living in a big house, (we lived in an apartment), with servants, (they had a cook!) and piano lessons, and art lessons, and going to fancy dress dances, and worried about their kid gloves!.. and giving away lobsters, and all the while complaining about how hard their life was, how poor they were, sob, sob.
i know now, that many of the things alcott wrote about and how she described the lives, described one of upper class standards, with low income, now that is! then i was still one of the poor irish
when i was older i liked the book.. but what really upset me at the time, was i got in trouble for not liking. i not only had to read it, i had to like it! i don't think compulsory reading lists are the problem, i think the problem is as much the idea that this BOOK the one they has finally made the list, must be enjoyed! I can understand you might have hated "wuthering heights" (i loved it!) and i bet any negitive comments about the book were not appreciated.
I generaly hate Hardy-- my daughter thinks he is a wonderful writer, i love george eliot, she thinks eliot is drivle. Who's right? who cares!
i like the idea of a list of 20 books, and you must read 4 or 5 from the list. this was (and is) still a common ploy. i read a lot of books i might have not otherwise picked up, except they were on a reading list. and since i could exersize some choice, i never felt duty bound to read something i disliked.. i could just switch to an other book.
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#62661
03/30/2002 1:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
When my children were little, we had no TV  ! They loved me to read to them and were such voracious listeners that I opted to tape their favorite stories so they could listen to them whenever they wanted to, thus allowing them the repetition, and me the freedom to read new stories. My daughter's favorite story was "The Cat Who Walked Alone", by Kipling. I also purchased a few books on tape. "Huck Finn" was my son's favorite. The phrase "Tragedy, mostly."(from the abridged, spoken by the "Duke") is still one of our catch phrases. Here is a link to the original text with the original illustrations, if anyone would like to read the book. http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/Twa2Huc.html
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#62662
03/30/2002 1:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
I've found that a lot of 'New worlders' will use various slang words specific to their ancestors even if only within their immediate family. A lot of Scots-Americans will say 'aye' without even knowing it
One such term I've heard in use in only two families is (and I've no idea of the correct spelling, so) hanyak, which is, as nearly as I can tell, a Scandanvian term about the equivalent yahoo (in the Jonathan Swift sense). Has anybody else ever heard of hanyak?
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#62663
03/30/2002 2:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
From a phrase site, no clue as to authenticity:
hanyak: Refers to people who do not use common sense, are insensitive to others and their environment, and are generally just stupid about what they're doing and their impact on others
Example: Did you see that hanyak cut across three lanes to make the light? Or That hanyak just butt way in front of the line we're in!
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#62664
03/30/2002 10:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
...often they tend to focus on emotional interactions, just as in conversations*? I think you guys, in general, tend to want to focus on the deed getting accomplished, and have less interest in the why. Although stereotypes are *made for a reason, does this mean the why is generally an emotional interaction? 
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#62665
03/30/2002 11:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Although stereotypes are *made for a reason, does this mean the why is generally an emotional interaction? Oh, shoot, I was afraid I was going to have to get more specific--thanks a LOT! Well, in a word...yes, that is what I meant in that post, though certainly not all 'whys' involve that! Here's an ex. of what I meant: let's say a leaky sink has been repaired: a woman is likely to say something like, "Oh, thank heavens that's fixed, because it was SO darned inconvenient to have to be mopping up all the time, and I was constantly having to make sure I had a good supply of paper towels on hand, and there were so many of them that I had to take out a whole extra bag of garbage this week..." Whereas a man is likely to say, "The sink got fixed because it was leaking"--if he even says anything at all.
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#62666
03/31/2002 12:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
...a woman is likely to say something like, "Oh, thank heavens that's fixed, because it was SO darned inconvenient to have to be mopping up all the time, and I was constantly having to make sure I had a good supply of paper towels on hand, and there were so many of them that I had to take out a whole extra bag of garbage this week..." Whereas a man is likely to say, "The sink got fixed because it was leaking"--if he even says anything at all.After all that chatter I think a *man will be saying something completely different !   But those words just loose [Hi, Juan] the *affect when typed!
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#62667
03/31/2002 12:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
But those words just loose [Hi, Juan] the *affect when typed!Well, gee, if you like, Sweetie, I can call you up and fill your ear with senseless garbage from here till tomorrow...
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#62668
03/31/2002 3:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Sounds like a forgery to me!
TEd wanders away looking for farrier weather
TEd
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