#60667
03/11/2002 4:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6 |
Am I just an old fogey? I thought that the word "likely" needed to be followed by an infinitive. Lately, I hear MANY newscasters (NPR take note!) using it directly before a verb. It just jars my ear!
Example:
It is likely to rain.
It will likely rain.
Which is correct, or both? I wouldn't dream of saying the latter, but it's quite common, of late.
What do you wordies think?
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#60668
03/11/2002 4:44 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
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It will likely rain?
Not likely.
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#60669
03/11/2002 4:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
My old dictionary has it as an adv. glossed 'probably', as well as the more usual adj. sense of 'probable', so it's not a new usage. But I agree it's unusual, perhaps dialectal.
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#60670
03/11/2002 5:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Sometimes "liable" may be more appropriate than "likely". If you get caught speeding, you are not merely likely to get a ticket, you are liable to get a fine.
3 subject to the possibility of; likely (to do, have, get, etc. something unpleasant or unwanted) liable to
And if "likely" bothers you how do you feel , like. hearing "like" misused?
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#60671
03/11/2002 5:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
It will likely rain?
Most likely.
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#60672
03/11/2002 6:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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how do you feel , like. hearing "like" misused?
How could it be misused, Dr. Bill? It's not being used; it's just getting stuck in there. Ever since the language haters started jumping on the use of like as a conjunction there's been a bunch of them hanging around with nothing to do. The younger generation, with their younger ears, have been sensitive to this surplus of likes and have been giving them make work, in a sort of linguistic WPA. It's the undue strictures of their elders that has given rise to this so-called "misuse" and the elders resent having it thrown in their collective face. This is all that is behind the objections to like in this context.
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#60673
03/11/2002 11:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Ad slogan: Winston tastes good, like a cigarette should.
[Follow-up ad slogan: Which would you rather have: good grammar or good taste? ]
aarrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhh!!!!
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#60674
03/11/2002 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
"Follow-up ad slogan: Which would you rather have: good grammar or good taste? "
Which would you rather have, lung cancer of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease?
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#60675
03/12/2002 3:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Then there is the southern U.S. use of like, like in the sentence, "I like to died when she said that!."
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#60676
03/12/2002 12:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
I'm with Whitty on this one:
The sound of "It will rain, most likely" is ok to my ear; also, "It will most likely rain" sounds ok, too.
But "It will likely rain" sounds weird. I don't know that I've ever heard that construction.
"It is liable to rain" sounds old-fashioned.
Then there's my grandma Etta's, "I kin see black clouds in the element! Likely to rain today!" She's the only person I know who refers to the sky as the element.
Best regards,
WeatherWind
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#60677
03/12/2002 1:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
I haven't had a chance to say Hi yet wordjunkie - so Hi!! And welcome. As for "likely", you'll likely  find me a lone voice here, but my university professor was dead set against all "ly" words. The argument was that they take a statement into the passive tense - when scientific articles should be more active. To my mind, "only" and "likely" sort of fall between the cracks though. Even so, I'd use "There is potential for rain" or "There's a chance of rain". I've moderated my stance to accept them in conversational english however. Anyway, the statement that it is probably unlikely that rain will actually happen is generally untrue!! stales
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#60678
03/12/2002 1:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,803 |
dead set against all "ly" words. ...they take a statement into the passive tense
I'm having some trouble seeing that argument. Can you think of an example, stales?
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#60679
03/12/2002 3:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Maybe passive isn't the right word? How about definitive? In stales speak, adverbs make a statement wishy washy.....
eg "Tall trees are generally found in valleys" is unacceptable to a scientist. The statement implies a lack of conviction as to its accuracy. They would be expected to write "Tall trees are found in valleys" or, if they couldn't prove this, they'd be expected to leave their pen capped until they established the facts.
Same example would apply for "usually", "actually", "really".
There's a politely heated thread on this somewhere in the archives....
Presumably you see what I'm really getting at?
stales
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#60680
03/12/2002 3:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Tall trees are (generally) found in valleys
Geesh! Tall trees are found in valleys !?! Are we saying that they are only found in valleys? Sometimes found in valleys? Generally found in valleys says to me that you are more likely [sic] to find them in valleys but you're not excluding other locations. Just plain bald "found in valleys" sounds wishy-washy to me.
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#60681
03/12/2002 4:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Erosion favors development of trees in valleys, and endangers trees on high slopes.
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#60682
03/12/2002 4:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,467 |
TEd
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#60683
03/12/2002 4:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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WJ:
Both constructions appear proper to me, at least in colloquial useage, and both are akin to "like as not", which to me has always meant better than a 50-50 chance.
Your raising this question made me think of the word apt. I would cheerfully say, "It is apt to rain today" as an alternative to "It is likely to rain today." And on the surface I'd be correct.
But glancing at a dictionary taught me that apt is more often used to indicate a natural or even an unnatural tendency to error or undesireable behavior. "I am apt to kill people when I get really angry." But "I am likely to remain calm when I get really angry."
Interesting. Thanks for bringing this up, as I learned something. And welcome to our little home away from home.
TEd
TEd
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#60684
03/12/2002 4:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6 |
Thanks, Ted. Interesting. "Apt" seems to take the infinitive. Always.
Am I missing something by assuming that "likely" does, as well? Or should I just get with the flow of the language, moving forward, and re-tune my ears to accept "It will likely rain" instead of the more proper "It is likely to rain" ?
The good thing about our language is that it keeps on changing. The bad thing is that I sometimes have a hard time keeping up with it!
(And don't get me started on using the word "done" when the word "finished" is more appropriate!)
Okay, then, I'm done. (Yikes!)
--the grammarian troglodyte. Must be the rain, today!
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#60685
03/12/2002 6:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
A pair of somewhat similar words: Prone, and supine. I am prone to supine tolerance of my own faults.
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#60686
03/12/2002 8:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Not much to be tolerated, dr. bill.
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#60687
03/12/2002 8:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
It will likely rain
Rain *is infinitive in this construction.
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#60688
03/12/2002 8:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2000
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It will likely rain
Rain *is infinitive in this construction.
Señor Faldaje, I'm gonna need this 'splained to me. If you get rid of the adverb, the sentence just reads "It will rain," which is just the future form of the verb. Are you saying that this is the infinitive because it takes the same form as "to rain," or is the future formed by adding "will" to the infinitive, and I've just never heard it described that way? Or some other explanation that's likely obvious but that I'm missing?
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#60689
03/12/2002 8:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
is the future formed by adding "will" to the infinitive?
The future is formed by adding "will" to the infinitive. Or by adding the infinitive to "will", whichever. There are two forms of the infinitive in English, one with to and the other bare naked.
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#60690
03/12/2002 9:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Thre's an easy way to tell the difference. When you are supine you are lying on your s(u)pine.
TEd
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#60691
03/12/2002 9:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
And when supine, you can hold soup in your navel.
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#60692
03/12/2002 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
And when supine, you can hold soup in your navel.Presuming innie, rather than outie. [Cross-threading to "shapely words": Connie, are the technical 'shroom terms umbilicate and umbonate?  ]
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#60693
03/13/2002 1:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
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addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
And when supine, you can hold soup in your navel.But doesn't that get the salt wet that I put there for the celery? 
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#60694
03/19/2002 1:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Today's bartleby quotation-of-the-day, regarding supine:
There is no calamity which a great nation can invite which equals that which follows a supine submission to wrong and injustice ... -- Grover Cleveland
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