#59441
03/03/2002 9:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
New Scientist 9 Feb 2002: p 51 On Brownian movement: .......Contrary to what many textboods state, Brown actually observed the motion of much smaller particles inside fluid filled voids within the pollen grains. This no doubt sounds like tiresome nit-picking.but as Einstein's analysis of Brownian movement shows, the effect is far smaller for relatively huge pollen grains than it is for the particles inside them.
Confusing the two has in the past led to accusations that Brown could not possibly have seen the effect which bears his name. It would be a shame to rob someone of his claim to fame simply because the textbooks can't be arsed to get the facts straight. Robert Matthews, Oxford
Translation, please?
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#59442
03/03/2002 9:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 96
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 96 |
cant be arsed = cant be bothered, unwilling thru laziness, Im afraid i use it far too much.
the Duncster
the Duncster
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#59443
03/03/2002 9:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
But, Dear Duncster, is it derived from the vulgar term for the external termination of the intestinal tract?
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#59444
03/04/2002 6:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
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addict
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...is it derived from the vulgar term for the external termination of the intestinal tract?
Just guessing ... but it's probably a contraction of "Can't be bothered getting off (or moving) one's arse". I believe arse is generally used to refer to the buttocks as well as the ET ot IT.
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#59445
03/04/2002 7:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>Just guessing ... but it's probably a contraction of "Can't be bothered getting off (or moving) one's arse". I believe arse is generally used to refer to the buttocks as well as the ET ot IT.
This sounds about right. It is not a term one would use in front of one's grandmother but is more like slang than an expletive. To be correct the ET ot IT would be more likely used in the much coarser expression "he is such an arsehole".
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#59446
03/04/2002 5:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
At least it seems clear that "arsed" was not a typo for "asked".
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#59447
03/04/2002 7:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
> At least it seems clear that "arsed" was not a typo for "asked".
Clear as day, Bill. The writer has obviously chosen this informal, and yes, crude usage to point out his annoyance at the lack of investigative diligence by would-be scientific writers who question the roots of 'Brownian motion'.
I doubt the writer makes a habit of using this kind of slang. It rounds the article off nicely though, eh.
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#59448
03/04/2002 7:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
Is it Brownian movement or motion, by the way?
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#59449
03/04/2002 8:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Dear BY: the article uses only the word motion. Movement was my word, which I believe I have commonly seen used.
P.S. I went into Yahoo Search box for " Physics Brownian movement" and found twenty sites.
I repeated for "Brownian motion" and got seventeen sites. Seems pretty even. No clue as to preference.
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#59450
03/04/2002 10:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
I was going to chase the derivation up, but I found I couldn't be arsed, either. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59451
03/04/2002 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Poor dear CK; Don't tell me you are half-arsed!
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#59452
03/05/2002 12:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Yahoo Search box for Physics:
"Brownian movement": twenty sites.
"Brownian motion": seventeen sites.
Seems pretty even.
How odd, in that Google seach gives a great discrepency (but with each used enough to suggest that either one is acceptable):
"brownian movement": 8,720 hits.
"brownian motion": 51,300 hits.
AHD says, "Brownian movement ... [definition] ... Also called Brownian motion."
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#59453
03/05/2002 12:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Poor dear CK; Don't tell me you are half-arsed!dr. bill, I believe the technical fundament al term is hemipygous.
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#59454
03/05/2002 1:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
I only recall hearing the term "Brownian Motion" when I was getting my physics degree. I was entirely arsed enough to walk to the basement, dig through a dusty old box of physics texts (I am not sure why depuis 15 years I have lugged them from one side of the continent to the other), and check the indexes. Not a Brownian movement to be found.
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#59455
03/05/2002 2:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I looked it up in Encarta Encyclopedia:Brownian Motion, constant erratic movement of tiny particles suspended in a fluid or gas.
It appears that the "Brownian Motion" has carried. But notice it is immediated defined as a "movement"!
"Brownian Motion," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 98 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1997 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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#59456
03/05/2002 10:12 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
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I was going to contribute to this thread but now I can't be arsed. 
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#59457
03/05/2002 10:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
I was going to contribute to this thread but now I can't be arsed.
What a bummer!
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#59458
03/05/2002 5:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Gosh, if you aren't arsed, where are we to find a brown(ian) movement???
TEd
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#59459
03/05/2002 9:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Don't want to stick my nose in where it's not wanted, but I do second that motion ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59460
03/05/2002 10:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
Don't want to stick my nose in where it's not wanted, but I do second that motion ...
I believe that would be called Brownian-nosing.
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#59461
03/06/2002 2:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
This thread has gone a bit pear-shaped. In fact, I'd say it's lost the plot altogether..... But we are amused.
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#59462
03/06/2002 2:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear MG: Does getting pear-shaped mean fat-arsed? Reminds me of the guy who called his girl Crisco, because she was fat in the can. He also said she sagged, but didn't give.
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#59463
03/06/2002 2:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,605 |
pear shaped I believe the word is pyriform. [not in wwftd, but in Grandiloquent Dictionary]
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#59464
03/06/2002 3:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
Hmmm....Hadn't heard of "pear-shaped" meaning "fat-arsed"....! Think it refers rather to the wobbly shape a pear has - which may well match some bottoms. "Wobbly" is another good one, actually....it's how my British cousin, living in La Belgique, refers to bad driving: eg, "Stop wobbling about in my blind spot, woman!" Are you sure the bloke said his girlfriend was "sagged"? Just because "shag" is my most favourite British slang word. Although....I must confess a liking for slagging people off (but only when they shag with my head and make my life go pear-shaped so I lose the plot).....  Right, it's getting late - I'm off to bedfordshire... :o)))))))))
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#59465
03/06/2002 1:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
Quinion and a couple other sites say "pear-shaped" referred to difficulty in flying a perfect circular loop, and was extended to mean other problems getting out of control. Doesn't appeal to me.
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#59466
03/06/2002 2:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 96
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 96 |
you would say "It's all gone pear-shaped" when things go wrong it is Southern saying that through TV etc. has spread around the country
"We'd robbed the bank and everything was going great , it all went pear-shaped when the getaway car would'nt start."
the Duncster
the Duncster
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#59467
03/06/2002 4:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
From whence cometh the charming acronym OTT (for Over The Top)? I like that one....
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#59468
03/06/2002 5:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
"From whence"???
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#59469
03/06/2002 6:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Online Webster's:
From whence, though a pleonasm, is fully authorized by the use of good writers.
And Atomica:
USAGE NOTE The construction from whence has been criticized as redundant since the 18th century. It is true that whence incorporates the sense of from: a remote village, whence little news reached the wider world. But from whence has been used steadily by reputable writers since the 14th century, most notably in the King James Bible: “I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help” (Psalms). Such a respectable precedent makes it difficult to label the construction as incorrect. Still, it may be observed that whence (like thence) is most often used nowadays to impart an archaic or highly formal tone to a passage, and that this effect is probably better realized if the archaic syntax of the word—without from—is preserved as well.
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#59470
03/06/2002 7:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
Bean, thanks! It's good to learn something new. [  ]
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#59471
03/06/2002 7:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>This thread has gone a bit pear-shaped. not to be confused with turnip-shaped. (napiform) http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#59472
03/06/2002 8:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Whence (and from whence) and whilts are very uncommon in US speach and writing.
i used to have UK produced instruction manuals that suggested Whilst holding with a spanner...
these direction alway were fun.. Our staff was such a mixed bag-- about 25% understood (from UK, or Jamaca, or other island that has british based schooling.) but many of the other nationals (pick a country!) who's first language was not english, really had a problem.
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#59473
03/06/2002 9:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear of troy: Forgive the quibble, but "whilst" is not Brit slang. And I think USns might be less likely to know what a "spanner". I know it only from having read such books as Nevil Shute's "Trustee From the Toolroom".
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#59474
03/06/2002 10:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
That must have been a bit of a wrench, Bill!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59475
03/07/2002 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
No, CK: the wrench is the painful sensation of discovering my erroneous pronunciation of some common English words or names of eople or places.
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#59476
03/07/2002 12:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
you would say "It's all gone pear-shaped" when things go wrong
My colleagues and I working on Y2K called our manual "What to do if things turn pear shaped". If nothing else, it lightened up an otherwise contentious issue.
Hev
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#59477
03/08/2002 3:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833 |
DA da DAAAA! Thank you, Bean, for nobly taking up the cause of "from whence" (a few posts back). "fully authorised by the use of good writers" Hey, I'm a good writer! Must go celebrate with some two-bite brownies.... but before I go, some more Brit slang (sort of): What are you like? You git! Town bike Taking in laundry and the rather rude "You twat!" - which, interestingly enough, is pronounced differently in the UK - where they make it rhyme with "cat" - from how it is pronounced in (scary loaded word coming up) the colonies, where it rhymes with "what."
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#59478
03/08/2002 9:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
Two words to add to the list:
chuffed: happy, pleased
tabbed: from what I can gather to walk or march
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#59479
03/08/2002 2:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 13,858 |
nd the rather rude "You twat!" - which, interestingly enough, is pronounced differently
in the UK - where they make it rhyme with "cat" - from how it is pronounced in (scary
loaded word coming up) the colonies, where it rhymes with "what."
Dear MG: This word interests me, because I think it is related to the cross-wise plank in a skiff, which is called a "thwart", on which you rest your butt. It is also used to refer to the female pudenda. I have seen a quote in that sense dating from about 1200. And I have only heard it pronounced like 'not'.
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#59480
03/08/2002 2:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
"You twat!" - which, interestingly enough, is pronounced differently in the UK - where they make it rhyme with "cat" - from how it is pronounced in (scary loaded word coming up) the colonies, where it rhymes with "what."
Obviously the colonies does not refer to where USns live since USns pronounce it to rhyme with "squat". "What" rhymes with "hut".
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