#59413
03/03/2002 1:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I was thinking about these three forms these past couple of weeks. The first indicates to me a dialogue, the second can refer a dialogue or perhaps a lecture, and the third a sort of monologue to an audience that doesn't respond/doesn't listen/doesn't care.
Are these distinctions my own idiolect or are they shared by others?
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#59414
03/03/2002 2:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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these distinctions1) I'm talking with somebody. 2) I'm gonna give you a good talking to! (discipline) or, I have to give them a good talking to. (disuss some problem) or, I'm talking to someone. 3) I feel like she's just talking at me. So, yeah, AnnaS...dialogue/lecture or dialogue/self-absorbed monologue...pretty much concur. Notice talking to can become a noun phrase in some cases. The word for that, anyone? Tsuwm?... (and I was just looking at two first-month threads of yours on Q & A called "nouns that become verbs" and "verbs that becomes nouns"...the latter only had one reply!...a tswum thread with one reply, that's a rarity!) 
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#59415
03/03/2002 3:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Agreed. Another way of seeing the distinction is that those who swear would swear at someone; you would never swear "with" or swear "to" them.
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#59416
03/03/2002 4:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>Notice talking to can become a noun phrase in some cases. actually, talking-to with the hyphen is a noun. but you're probably thinking of the verbal noun, analogous to the L. gerund, a noun derived directly from a verb or verb stem and in some uses having the sense and constructions of a verb; to wit, talking. and as for any thread of mine that elicited one response in those early days, don't let me witness the accursing, castigating and excommunicating of that poor, benighted soul. http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#59417
03/03/2002 4:41 AM
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Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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a tswum thread with [only] one reply, that's a rarity!A shameful inattention which I have now remedied. 
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#59418
03/03/2002 6:05 AM
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Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Actuallyİ, talking with is a creeping Americanism. You rarely hear it in the English English-speaking world. You would normally expect to hear talking to. You would, however, have a conversation with someone.
FWIW.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59419
03/03/2002 7:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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For me both 'talk to' and 'speak to' are the usual neutral forms meaning 'address' and 'converse with', though both also have an additional pregnant sense 'rebuke, buttonhole, dress down'.
As to 'talk with' and 'speak with', I could use these, and don't feel they're Americanisms, but they're much less usual. 'Talk with' is associated with Dr Doolittle, where it was required as a parallel to 'walk with'. The 'with' forms are largely absent from my dictionaries.
There was a comedy episode, of what I can't remember, where a German tourist said 'talk' and a choleric Arthur Lowe snapped 'Parrots talk, people speak!'.
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#59420
03/03/2002 10:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I agree to some extent, Nicholas: I also use both talk and speak. I have been reflecting on why and when I use the two forms, and I think it depends on the circumstances as to which I woudl use. If we were conversing on the telephone, I mught well conclude with, "... I'll talk to you later about this." But if I had phoned you and was answered by someone else, I would almost certainly say, "I would like to speak with Nicholas, please."
Why is that, I wonder?
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#59421
03/03/2002 12:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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don't let me witness the accursing, castigating and excommunicating of that poor, benighted soul.
This would be the poor, benighted soul who had the temerity to respond to a thread of yours, tsuwm?
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#59422
03/03/2002 12:47 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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talking with is a creeping Americanism.
Heaven forfend that one use one word when three will do just as well!
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#59423
03/03/2002 1:46 PM
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Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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don't let me witness the accursing, castigating and excommunicating of that poor, benighted soul.>This would be the poor, benighted soul who had the temerity to respond to a thread of yours, tsuwm? man, you work overtime putting some verbal nouns into a post and this is the rewarding you get. http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#59424
03/03/2002 2:24 PM
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Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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man, you work overtime putting some verbal nouns into a post and this is the rewarding you get.
tsuwm, when one has so high a ranking, do maledicting, excoriating and belaboring require overtime laboring?
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#59425
03/03/2002 2:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Walk With Me, Talk With Me, Jesus -
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#59426
03/04/2002 3:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428 |
To go a bit off track, I'll add the US regionalism that "talking to" can mean "going out with, dating", as in "So, Betty Sue, who are you talking to these days?" It is a Southernism, as far as I know, but the only direct experience of it I have is from my wife, who lived in Alabama for a time, so it may not be common across the entire South (Jackie?)
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#59427
03/04/2002 3:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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How strange! In C19 England, the legal "euphemism" for adultery was, "criminal conversation!" (A phrase which has always amused me, I must admit!)
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#59428
03/04/2002 4:18 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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the legal "euphemism" for adultery was, "criminal conversation!"
intercourse
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#59429
03/04/2002 10:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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CK says talking with is a creeping Americanism.
Faldage says Heaven forfend that one use one word when three will do just as well!
CK ripostes Hang on, hang on, I didn't say creepy American, you know.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59430
03/04/2002 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Even here in Michigan, if you are "talking to" someone, it means you are going with someone, although I generally hear it in the context of the beginning of a relationship, as in "There's this one guy I'm talkin' to", followed with a silly smile .
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#59431
03/05/2002 1:27 PM
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Around here "talking to" may also mean a disciplinary lecture ..as in "I am going to give that child a good talking to."
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#59432
03/06/2002 7:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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>Actuallyİ, talking with is a creeping Americanism
I first heard it about twenty years ago, along with meeting with (yuk) - why not just meet someone?
I wonder if it gained currency as a "touchy feely" term to replace the overtones of talking to (giving a good talking to) or talking down to. I hadn't heard of "talking to" meaning dating but then it is no more unrelated than "going out with". You can go out with someone, talk to them and then one day you can know them (these days the "knowing" comes along a little quicker than it used to).
We just love euphemism don't we? I must dash off to spend a penny. Ta Ta.
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#59433
03/06/2002 11:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Hm, Chambers's glosses converse as 'to have intercourse: to talk familiarly: to commune'.
The original sense is 'to turn about with', i.e. to walk with and talk with. Its use as specifically talking is a restriction.
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#59434
03/26/2002 9:33 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
along with meeting with (yuk) - why not just meet someone?
For once I must side with the USn's on this one. If I have understood it correctly meet with implies some prior arrangement or having a meeting, while meet plus a direct object would imply a chance meeting. e.g.
I met with Angela before the play. versus
I met Irma and her husband while I was browsing in QB.
A useful distinction, I feel.
Bingley
Bingley
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