#59099
02/28/2002 10:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4 |
Could anybody tell me which word for a simpleton arose from the nickname of this man who contrived to fritter away some 250,000 pounds in a couple of years in the 1880's? I am guessing he came from Britain but not 100 percent sure.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
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#59100
02/28/2002 3:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Fearless: I found a site where you could buy a print of him:
Henry Ernest Schlesinger Benzon.
Spy. July 23, 1887. "The Jubilee Plunger." $50
Sounds as though he "plunged" £250,000 down the tube, a simpleton, indeed.
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#59101
02/28/2002 3:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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not knowing who this is, much less his(?) nickname, all I can do is hazard a few guesses:
jobbernowl? mome? buffoon?
addlepate? sumph? sawney?
nincompoop? ninny? ninnyhammer?
nupson? mooncalf? footler?
numskull? nimshy? clodpoll?
gowk? balatron? clodpate?
clumperton? coof? dizzard?
chowderhead? chucklehead? dolt?
gawkhammer? gomeril? goop?
grinagog? grobian? gudgeon?
gump? hoddypeak? lobcock?
looby? loord? mome?
mook? puzzlepate? quoob?
tawpie? tomfool? witling?
jackpudding? zob?
les fous font les festinas et les sages les mangent?
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#59102
02/28/2002 4:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Welcome, Fearless--good to have you aBoard. I couldn't find anything on who this guy is, even, let alone his nickname, but just now the word schlepp came to mind.
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#59103
02/28/2002 4:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the word schlepp came to mind.
er, Jackie, schlep is yiddish for tote; carry; lug around, as in, "Don't schlep all those packages yourself; let me help you." Perhaps you were thinking of schlub, which if I recall aright would fit. Edit, after LIU: no, it wouldn't fit.
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#59104
02/28/2002 6:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,467 |
TEd
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#59105
03/01/2002 12:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477 |
Any help would be appreciated.
Can't help, I'm afraid except to say WELCOME  from one Aussie to another. We're getting that quota up here, guys! Now - if we had a Victorian and a Queenslander, we'd be fully represented. Oh, unless you think we need a Capital Territorian? Do we risk a Polly?
Glad you've jumped in, fearless!
Hev
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#59106
03/01/2002 3:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4 |
Thanks for the welcome.
BTW I brought the Tim Tams.
If I do happen to find out I will be sure to post. Someone suggested bozo but from what I can find out its origin is unknown and came into being in the 1920s.
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#59107
03/01/2002 10:48 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Someone suggested bozo but from what I can find out its origin is unknown and came into being in the 1920s.
I've heard of a famous clown called Bozo from that era but I can't find a reference to him anywhere. Perhaps he took the name rather than coining it.
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#59108
03/02/2002 4:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
I found one reference to Mr Benzon online, but it didn't say anything except to acknowledge his infamy for gambling losses.
FWIW, O Thou Improper, Thou Uncommon Noun -- a book containing thousands of eponyms -- does not list Mr Benzon.
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#59109
03/02/2002 6:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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perhaps it might prove of some interest, since we have little but nothing to go on, to know what it was that prompted this query. http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#59110
03/03/2002 10:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4 |
It is one of the few remaining questions that I have to complete a trivia quiz. The reason I believe he is a Brit and thus the word to be British in origin is because the amount he frittered was in pounds not in dollars etc.
If I ever find it I will be sure to let you know.
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#59111
03/04/2002 12:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Fearless, getting a little warmer here. Apparantly Mr. Benzon lost his money principally in horseracing. He was the "Man of the Day" in Vanity Fair Magazine, July 23, 1887 [on which a bricks-qand-mortar library may help]. See also the site wwh noted above, listing his nickname as The Jubilee Plunger.In some dictionaries is plunger is listed as having the meaning gambler. http://www.race-horses.com/news/2000/aug2000.htm; near bottom http://www.defreitasbooks.com/20vanity.html
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#59112
03/04/2002 12:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Shaking this dog's bone a bit more:
Plunger: One who plunges, or spends money recklessly in bets, etc. The Marquis of Hastings was the first person so called by the turf. One night he played three games of draughts for £1,000 a game, and lost all three. He then cut a pack of cards for £500 a cut; and lost £5,000 in an hour and a half. He paid both debts at once before he left the room. -- E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
tsuwm, faldage, can someone with access to OED see if the etymology of this use of plunger perhaps gives the name of this marquis as Benzon?
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#59113
03/04/2002 1:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
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The OED give the following, very helpful, etymology of the word plunger. [f. plunge v. + -er1.]I hope, Kieva, that this has cleared up any questions you might have had!
4. slang. One who bets, gambles, or speculates rashly or recklessly.
1876 World V. No. 115. 4 The prince of plungers, with hat jauntily cocked over one eye. 1877 Besant & Rice Son of Vulc. i. i, Plungers in baccarat, badminton, loo, and opera-dancers. 1892 Jessopp Stud. by Recluse vi. (1893) 192 He took to the turf,+was a regular plunger, and got deeply into debt.
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#59114
03/04/2002 1:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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it seems a bit of a reach going from a reckless gambler (plunger) to a "simpleton". Hermit, a 1,000-15 shot, nursing a serious injury, races from the back to the front to win the Derby. Epsom, 22 May 1867. Barely a week before the big race, Hermit pulled up with a broken blood vessel running in a trial at Newmarket. However, the rivalry between his owner, Henry Chaplin, and the Marquis of Hastings (who stood to lose £120,000 if Hermit won) ensured the colt's appearance in the classic. But with unseasonal snow flurries blowing across the Downs, Hermit's starting odds of 1,000-15 appeared a little miserly as he remained at the back of the field approaching Tattenham Corner. Suddenly he took off under the driving of jockey John Daley and at the winning post stretched out to beat the 10-1 chance Marksman by a neck. The Marquis of Hastings, it is said, went deathly pale. http://www.findonvillage.com/0123_the_obsession.htmthis seems like extremely bad luck more than anything else (but proves once again that you should never bet the farm on a sure thing). btw, I am unable to find a connection between Benzon and the Marquis. http://home.mn.rr.com/wwftd/
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#59115
03/04/2002 1:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Plunger: 1. a person who plunges, or dives. 2 a large rubbeer suction cup with a long handle, used to free clogged drains.
I think the guy with the long name got his head shoved in the hopper.
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