#58678
02/26/2002 7:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1 |
I have 2 questions about this. Which is warmer: tepid or lukewarm? Also, are you aware of other word pairs with circular definitions, i.e. which only define a word with its pair-mate.
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#58679
02/26/2002 7:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
Answers: lukewarm, and I'll get back to you.
Welcome aBoard.
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#58680
02/26/2002 11:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
The terms are interchangeable.
For tepid the OED has:
Moderately or slightly warm; lukewarm. a. lit. (Usually in reference to liquids.)
For Lukewarm:
1. Moderately warm, tepid.
As you say, circular definitions. Whichever you choose depend on personal preference rather than any difference in meaning (at least here).
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#58681
02/26/2002 11:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
I would say that it is a matter of connotation, rather than difference in meaning. "Tepid" has, for me, quite negative connotations (possibly because of other -id words - vapid, insipiod, stupid, etc) whereas "lukewarm has, at the least, a "safe" connotation - you can't scald yourself in it. And may I extend a far from "likewarm" ( Whoops - that should be lukewarm, of course!)and definitely not "tepid" welcome to you, wordplayer. 
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#58682
02/26/2002 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
What's up with the "luke" in lukewarm? When I first heard the word (when I was small) I couldn't figure out why someone's name was in the word.
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#58683
02/26/2002 1:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Also, are you aware of other word pairs with circular definitions, i.e. which only define a word with its pair-matee.g. soliloquy and monologue (the first from latin and the second from greek). By the way "tepid" is no warmer than lukewarm, but it is a lot more learned, eh, erudite  .
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#58684
02/26/2002 1:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Luke Warm is a member of a quartet with Mark Ettry, Matt Utinal and Jon Gleur.
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#58685
02/26/2002 2:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Tepid is the temperature inside an Indian tepee, which is unheated. Luke lived in the Holy Land, which was warm.
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#58686
02/26/2002 3:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
The luke in lukewarm comes from ME luke, lewk; akin to OE hleow, meaning "warm," so the term means "warm warm."
I like lukewarm because it has (inevitably) led in our house to the term lukecool. [not-to-be-confused-with-Cool-Hand-Luke emoticon]
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#58687
02/26/2002 4:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
my reputaion was made (ruined) when at 13 or so, someone thru out the insult to Cathy C. "you have a head like a seive!" Cathy was aware she was being insulted, but said, "what's a seive?" and i chimed in " a colender"
now days, i tend to think of a seive as more like a strainer, and made of wire mesh-- and a colendar as a bowl with perforations.. not quite the same thing, or quite interchangable.. (i could use a seive to drain my pasta, but i wouldn't use a colender to remove lumps bits from sugur or flour..only a seive would do that. )
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#58688
02/26/2002 6:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 163 |
I always thought of a colander (or cullander) as a bowl with perforations inside a solid bowl with a lid. The perforated inner bowl is rotated by turning a handle on the lid. We use it mainly for removing the excess water from things like lettuce after washing it.
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#58689
02/26/2002 8:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
A colander can be made by riddling a metal bowl with a shotgun. When I worked in the foundry, the moulders used "riddles" to sieve their sand.
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#58690
02/26/2002 9:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Which came first, David or Ricky?
Also known as a Nelson Riddle.
TEd
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#58691
02/26/2002 9:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
"what's a seive?" and i chimed in " a colender
Ohhhh, now I understand why I keep missing appointments! I keep writing them down on one of those. I knew I should not write on a calendula, at least, because it would upset my neighbor, Mary Gold.
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#58692
02/26/2002 9:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Which came first, David or Ricky?
Neither. First there was the bastard son, fathered by a wrestler when Ozzie wasn't looking. He was the half Nelson.
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#58693
02/26/2002 9:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Which came first, David or Ricky?Well, akshully®, TEd...Ozzie and Harriet. 
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#58694
02/27/2002 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
I always thought of a colander (or cullander) as a bowl with perforations inside a solid bowl with a lid. The perforated inner bowl is rotated by turning a handle on the lid. We use it mainly for removing the excess water from things like lettuce after washing it.No, no! At least in my ideolect, that's a salad spinner. One of my VERY FAVOURITE kitchen toys. (I love kitchen toys with gears or teeth - salad spinner, egg beater, can opener...). A colander is often plastic (but can be metal), and is more plastic than holes (by surface area), while a sieve is metal mesh, formed in a bowl shape, and is more holes than metal. Here are some pics: Colander: http://www.cybercucina.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/ccdocs/products/3535-x.html?E+cybercucinaSieve (hanging on the wall in the picture, with bonus Indonesian vocabulary!): http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Indonesian/Themes/Houses/kitchen/Default.htm
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#58695
02/28/2002 5:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
I am reminded (and what doesn't remind me??) of the story I heard in Australia years ago. Seems this poor English fellow got lost in the Outback without proper supplies. Meaning he didn't have one ounce of tea in his pack. He wandered for days, his mind consumed with the thought of a good cuppa.
Finally, he saw a sign of civilization, quite literally a sign:
Welcome to Mersey
Compliments Mersey Tea Room
Our friend flung himself through the door and gasped, "Please, my dear man, a cup of your very best tea."
Moments later he was presented with a beatiful Delft cup, in which there was a brown liquid that smelt strongly of tea. But alas. In the mixture could be seen small pieces of hair and bone.
Aghast, the Englishman howled, "My God, what is this devil's brew?"
The waiter explained patiently, "Sir, this is koala bear tea, the specialty of the Mersey Tea Room."
Suppressing his gag reflex, the Englishman took a sip. Nectar! Ambrosia! Strawberry Fields Forever. It was indeed the finest tea he had ever tasted, and he quickly finished it off. Holding the cup out with both hands, he said to the waiter, "Pleae, sir, could I have more, sir? But this time, would you be so kind as to run it through a sieve to get out the foreign matter?"
The waiter drew himself up to his full height and replied scornfully, "Sir, the koala tea of Mersey is NOT strained."
TEd
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#58696
02/28/2002 6:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear TEd: May the Porsche of that punchline run over you.
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#58697
03/01/2002 6:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Dear Insiders I am more mystified than ever before - by the punchline and the Porsche. Could you please give a hint to a foreigner ?
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#58698
03/01/2002 8:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
The Koala Tea of Mersey is not Strained is a play on Portia's speech in the Merchant of Venice (Shakespeare): "The quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven". The Porsche reference was a play on "Portia". All very confusing! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#58699
03/01/2002 5:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
All very confusing! But very erudite. Hats off to you, sirs!
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#58700
03/03/2002 3:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
I assume, TEd, that the operators of the Mersey Tea Rooms were anarcho-syndicalists. This would explain why they served tea made from Koala Bear, rather than from the leaves of the teaplant. They would, of course, be following the dictum of P-J Proudhon, who declared, "All proper tea is theft."
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#58701
03/03/2002 4:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"all proper tea is theft" P. J. Proudhon. I had to look him up.
roudhon, Pierre Joseph (1809-65), French writer and political theorist, sometimes referred to as the father of modern anarchism.
Proudhon was born in Besançon on January 15, 1809. Belonging to a poor family, he received scholarships that enabled him to study and to write. In his pamphlet What Is Property? (1840; trans. 1876), Proudhon condemned the abuses of concentrated economic power and private property. His radical theories made him popular as an anarchist thinker, and he was elected to the constituent assembly after the Revolution of 1848. In the assembly, his proposal to levy antiproperty tax on rent and interest was defeated. He also attempted to found a people's bank at which credit would be provided to borrowers without interest.
"Proudhon, Pierre Joseph," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 98 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1997 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
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#58702
03/03/2002 5:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Thank you, Dr. Bill. 'Tween Rhuby's Proudhomme fellow and tsuwm's Blanshard, my education be increasin'--can't recall ever learning about these 2 gen'lmen. Thank you, you-all--I'm a-gettin' me some enjoys out o' that.
[LA accent] [doing a Max e]
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#58703
03/03/2002 6:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Jackie: your turn to enlighten me. I could not find anything relevant about "Blanshard".
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#58704
03/04/2002 1:08 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
Reminds me the story of poor Toulouse-Lautrec, who at one time was so penurious that he traded one of his paintings for a pair of used Levi 501s. Some time later the house where he was staying was consumed in flames, and Lautrec fell and was knocked unconscious while fleeing the conflagration. When he came to he asked if the firemen had been able to save his palette and brushes. "Alas," replied his friend, "You have nothing, Toulouse, but your jeans."
TEd
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#58705
03/04/2002 1:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
It is a little known fact that that gentleman took up painting only after he was forced to leave, in disgrace, his earlier career as a construction engineer for the french national railroad. His work seemed satisfactory initially, but after several years began to badly degrade. Upon inspection, the engineers discovered that his crews had had driven only 1/3 of the normal number of stakes-per-mile to secure his rail-lines to the underlayment, so that the improperly secured rails shifted and spread after trains had pounded over them for a few years. The repairs were costly -- and an audit reveled that this thief had requisitioned funds for the full complement of stakes (though using only 1/3 to that number), and had simply pocketed the extra money.
He resigned in scandal and disgrace -- and to escape the notoriety of his name, adopted a new name for himself. But his family and close friends, of course, knew that he was the engineer who had made Too Loose Le Track.
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#58706
03/04/2002 2:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Well, I can't, really, Dr. Bill. I do know he was a 20th-century philosopher. tsuwm can explain more fully, I'm sure. By the way, either everyone got my play on words, or was too polite to point out my "mistake" in mixing Proudhon with Paul Prudhomme. Homme = fellow, don'tcha know?
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