#57312
02/18/2002 3:24 PM
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#57313
02/18/2002 3:38 PM
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from tsuwm's citation
A cat has nine lives....sure! Where were all the "cat people" on this one?
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#57314
02/18/2002 3:53 PM
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from tsuwm's citation
Fairies. In order to see the fairies, a person is directed to put “nine grains of wheat on a
four-leaved clover.”
Celtic lore? Rubrick?
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#57315
02/18/2002 3:58 PM
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Rubrick told us there was no such thing as a four-leaf clover [notchortle]. I'm sure I've seen one before!! Any botanists out there?
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#57316
02/18/2002 4:08 PM
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I'm with you, ASp -- used to have a four-leafed clover pressed in the pages of my Webster's Collegiate (7th ed.) [under hoodoo]
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#57317
02/18/2002 4:12 PM
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Any botanists out there?
there's never one when you want one, then four'll come along at once...
and yeah, I've pict em in Wales [notwink]
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#57318
02/18/2002 4:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Rubrick told us there was no such thing as a four-leaf clover
The old song tells us we can overlook that, AnnaS - was it look over it???
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#57319
02/18/2002 4:16 PM
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from tsuwm's citation
Be sure to click through the sevens continuation links at the bottom right of the page. This is the first one:
E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897. Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
Seven Bibles (The) or Sacred Books.
(1) The Bible of Christians. (Canon completed A.D. 494; Old Testament as we have it, B.C. 130.)
(2) The Eddas of the Scandinavians.
(3) The Five Kings of the Chinese. “King” here means web-of-cloth on which they were
originally written.
(4) The Koran of the Mohammedans. (Seventh century, A.D.)
(5) The Tri Pitikes of the Buddhists. (Sixth century B.C.)
(6) The Three Vedas of the Hindûs. (Twelfth century B.C.)
(7) Zendavesta of the Persians. (Twelfth century B.C.)
The Eddas of the Scandinavians really piques my interest since I'm unfamiliar with it. I'll be researching. In the meantime, if anyone has something on this, please share.
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#57320
02/18/2002 4:17 PM
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addict
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Celtic lore? Rubrick?
Celtic Lore? Hell, no. I think we have more imagination than that!!!
Blame us for Shebeens, leprechauns, banshees and St. Patrick's snakes (not to mention shelalaghs, Fionn MacChumhaill, Fir bolg, Na Fianna, high kings, Lughnasa, Samhain and tors). We deal with legends and sagas - not trite luck symbols!
I think the flc is a derivation of the shamrock so there-in lies the connection with the Green Isle. If there is an affiliation with Ireland I sure haven't heard of it. Can anyone put me right on this??
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#57321
02/18/2002 4:19 PM
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we can overlook that, AnnaS - was it look over it???
Speaking for the ASp: Yes
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#57322
02/18/2002 4:21 PM
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The Eddas of the Scandinavians really piques my interest since I'm unfamiliar with it. I'll be researching. In the meantime, if any one has something on this, please share.
Lots of references to this book WON but the following seems to be the autoritative version. PM me if you want a longer list of available copies.
AUTHOR :Snorri Sturluson, 1179-1241
Faulkes, Anthony
TITLE :Edda
VOLUME :: Háttatal/ Snorri Sturluson; edited by Anthony Faulkes
IMPRINT :Oxford : Clarendon Press; , 1991
COLLATION :(200p) ; 22cm
ISBN :0198112386
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#57323
02/18/2002 4:56 PM
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The Twelve Plays of Christmas
[signed] Edward
Come on, Em'--forgive me! Lemme back inside, dearest!
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#57324
02/18/2002 5:00 PM
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My mother can find four-leaf clover all over the farm. She's got a gift for finding them.
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but maybe there's no such thing as a four-leaf shamrock...
Best regards,
WW
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#57325
02/18/2002 7:10 PM
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Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
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Think of a number between one and ten (or one and a hundred) and you will inevitably pick a fibonacci number. Give it a go. Your nature will overcome your conscious.
I'm not so sure about that. My first inclination is always to pick 7, and that's not a Fibonacci number.
Most successful plots involve three central characters and are broken into three acts or scenes.
I'll agree with the acts and scenes, but characters? Surely there are more successful pairs. Romeo & Juliet for example.
Architects follow onto this by using triangulation to survey and to design.
Maybe somewhat, but we've mainly studied rectangles and circles as being in perfect proportion to the human form.
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#57326
02/18/2002 7:55 PM
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#57327
02/18/2002 8:00 PM
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Posts: 21
stranger
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stranger
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"And that's a terrific number! 4. Why? Because you use four fingers on the fingerboard when playing violin. That's what 4 is for! Four sure!"
"Once you were two, dear birthday friend,
In spite of purple weather.*
But now you are three and near the end
As we gruesome together.
How forthful thou, forsooth for you!
For soon you will be more!
But 'fore one can be three be two,
Before be five be four."
--Churchy LaFemme, of Pogo fame
*Some folklorists opine that the original line here was "inside of turtle sweater," but no definitive proof has been obtained.
Tsyganka, ever the scholar
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#57328
02/18/2002 9:10 PM
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The fibonacci sequence starts 0 1 and forms each later term as the sum of the two immediately-preceding ones; hence 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 ...
These numbers are often found in nature. For example, in many flowers the number of petals is a fibonacci number (or is such a number repeated twice, in two sets):
3 petals: lily, iris
5 petals: buttercup, wild rose, larkspur, columbine, vinca
8 petals: delphinium, coreopsis
13 petals: ragwort, marigold, cineraria
21 petals: aster, black-eyed susan, chicory
34 petals plantain, daisy, pyrethrum
55 or 89 petals: daisy, the asteraceae family
(The are exceptions. Often those exceptions are numbers in the Lucas series,, which is from with the same "sum of the previous two" rule but starting with 2 1: hence 2 1 3 4 7 11 18 29 47 76 ...)
So too: in a seedhead at the center of daisy or suflower, or the like, the sprials of the individual seeds are in patterns of fibonacci numbers. It was suspected, and then proved mathematically in 1993, that this produces optimum uniformity of spacing as the seeds and seedhead grow.
As one moves out in a fibonacci series (or in any related series using the same rule, such as the Lucas series), the ratio of the term to its preceding term converges to the golden ratio -- which is the subject of its own thread.
Another oddity: write the fibonacci numbers (0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 ...) thus as decimal fractions thus; then total the decimal numbers:
0 -- .0
1 -- .01
1 -- .001
2 -- .0002
3 -- .00003
5 -- .000005
8 -- .0000008
13--.00000013
21--.000000021
sum.011235951
The sum (carried out infinitely) equals 1/89th -- and 89 is itself a fibonacci number.
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#57329
02/18/2002 9:58 PM
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RE: in many flowers the number of petals is a fibonacci number (or is such a number repeated twice, in two sets):
3 petals: lily, iris
Iris, lily(s) and tulips all have 3 petals/
half the "flower" is a modified, colored sepel A slightly different structure. -- sepal are most familier in roses (which have 5, the green covers to the rose bud)
some plants have modified sepals.. so, three of the lilies "petals' are really "covers' to the three petals of the flower.
same in tulips, and iris's, and lots of other flowers.
flowers generally have 1 to 1 ratio of sepals to petals.. but in modified forms, the ratio is lost. so old, simple roses (a tudor rose, say) has five petals but many modern roses have any number of petals, following a fibonacci series number. there are also "double forms of lilies", with 6 or 9 petals (total appearence, 9 or 12) but the number of sepals remains the same.
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#57330
02/18/2002 11:42 PM
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the whole nine yardsOrB~! Look what I found! But since he's incorrect about "your name will be mud/your name is mud" hearkening back to Dr. Mudd (see Today's Word thread) on the same page, I dunno. Take a look at the rest of his stuff and see what you think. http://www.isye.gatech.edu/~jsokol/etym.html The Whole 9 Yards - The term "the whole 9 yards" came from WWII fighter pilots in the South Pacific. When arming their airplanes on the ground, the .50 caliber machine gun ammo belts measured exactly 27 feet, before being loaded into the fuselage. If the pilots fired all their ammo at a target, it got "the whole 9 yards." Thanks to Sarah Yohannan for this contribution.P.S. So who's Sarah Yohannan?
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#57331
02/19/2002 2:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
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old hand
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P.S. So who's Sarah Yohannan?
Probably one of the hundreds of people who have tried to make up an origin for the phrase that has no known origin.
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#57332
02/19/2002 3:07 AM
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As long as you're not using four on the floor at the same time duncan, it's o.k.
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#57333
02/19/2002 3:46 AM
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robably one of the hundreds of people who have tried to make up an origin for the phrase that has no known origin.
Yep, that's what I was thinkin', Jazzo...this guy claims to be a credible linguist and yet he uses sourceless mail-in material? Huh? But I've never run across anything on the whole nine yards before, so, myth or not, I figured it was worth putting up for a look.
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#57334
02/19/2002 5:42 AM
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>Huh? But I've never run across anything on the whole nine yards before...
then you really owe it to yourself to look at the Quinion link -- he's got the whole nine yards.
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#57335
02/19/2002 9:09 AM
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Sorry, according to the British High Court yesterday those of us residing in the UK can no longer even discuss anything that is measured in anything other than metric measures. This is because Brussels says so. Therefore anyone resident in the EC/EU/ECC who even mentions measures such as yar... [erp@#*^!#]
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#57336
02/19/2002 10:01 AM
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I'll agree with the acts and scenes, but characters? Surely there are more successful pairs. Romeo & Juliet for example.I was thinking more like Othello or King Lear. In fairness, I did say mostly!  Architects follow onto this by using triangulation to survey and to design.
Maybe somewhat, but we've mainly studied rectangles and circles as being in perfect proportion to the human form.Yup. Leonardo's The proportions of man is a good example of this. (Incidentally, it is the design on the back of the Italian Euro coin). I did architecture in a fomer life and it is near impossible to draw a square without a 45 degree set square triangle). You can do it with a compass BUT you need to centre that circle first and that requires triangulation.
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#57337
02/19/2002 10:50 AM
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Posts: 55
newbie
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newbie
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I've got it!!! I just figured out the true meaning behind the whole nine yards! What a revelation! OK. Sit back and listen, for I will now reveal the truth to you:
It's really quite simple. One day there was a big home football game. Among the fans was an enthusiastic dingbat admiring all the players on the field, a dingbat clueless about football, but really a sincere admirer of how all those hulks covered in their shoulder plates of armour could move across the field like ballerinas. She was in awe!
Then, at one telling point in the game, seeing that her team was only nine yards from making a touchdown (actually it was ten yards, but she'd been very confused about the measurement between those lines), she shouted out something like, "Battuh, battuh, battuh, battuh...!" And when the winning touchdown was scored, she shouted, "He went the whole nine yards!" A reporter, taking notes beside her, asked, "May I quote you?" She batted her eyes at him, and said, "Why certainly! I'm their biggest fan, you know!" And, as in the case of, "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus," her words went down in sports history forever.
And that, my friends, is the explanation behind THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. You heard it first here on A.Word.A.Day's Wordplay and Fun!
From one of many shining points of illumination,
OrB~
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#57338
02/21/2002 12:14 AM
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Thanks, tsuwm...Quinion, indeed, has the whole nine yards on the whole nine yards! Just like the full monty, numerous theories but nothing certifiable, no cigar. He does say the WWII ammo story may have "merit" because its the right time-frame. And with even more pertinence to this number thread, he had this to offer: Some writers argue that the number isn't a dimension of any kind: Jonathon
Green, in his Cassell Dictionary of Slang, suggests that it's most likely to
represent a use of nine as a mystic number, after the fashion of nine
tailors, the nine muses, and several other expressions; Jesse Sheidlower
thinks that it may be related in this way to the number in the equally odd
expression dressed to the nines. Here's the link: http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/nineyards.htm
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