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#55536
02/06/2002 1:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Regarding today's word, Gibraltar, Anu calls it a toponym; a friend says it's an eponym. The word is derived from Al-Gibar(sp?), the Moor who invaded the Iberian peninsula through that narrowest of passages between Africa and Spain.
Which do you-all say it is?
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#55537
02/06/2002 2:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
I was going to ask something along those lines myself...I'd been thinking that Gibraltar itself must have been named after something/someone...
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#55538
02/06/2002 2:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
OK, I know about Gibraltar. It is named for Jebal al Tariq, a Berber general
who crossed from Africa into Southern Spain in 711 during the expansion of Islam
under the Umayyad Caliphate.
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#55539
02/06/2002 2:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Which do you-all say it is?
Me-all says (and I left my copy of the WAD at home) that the name of the place is an eponym (well sort of, there seems to be some question as to whether it comes from Gebel-Tarik meaning "the mountain of Tarik" or Jabbar-altar "Jabbar's heights". Either way it's got eponymic tendencies) but if it's used to mean "any strong fortress" it's a toponym.
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#55540
02/06/2002 4:51 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Gibraltar the place is an eponym but its use in the word of the day makes it a toponym since the stronghold reference doesn't apply to the person but to the place.
Paris was named after the (Greek) hero but I doubt that something Parisien(ne) refers to him but rather to the city itself so Parisien(ne) to describe chic would also be a toponym.
Isn't that the same thing?
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#55541
02/06/2002 4:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
Usually derived from Tariq the general, and jabal 'mountain' (= jebel, gebel etc.). The Arabic word order is Jabal Tariq 'Mountain of Tariq'.
Jabbar-altar looks dubious. What language is it supposed to be? Now alt- is Romance for 'high', and gives 'altar', Latin altare, but putting the possessor in front is not Romance; nor Arabic.
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#55542
02/06/2002 5:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Jabbar-altar looks dubious.
It's supposed to be Latin according to the site I got it from. I find it somewhat suspect myself. Its main claim to fame seems to be that you don't have to bend it so much to get Gibraltar. I just included it for S&Gs.
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#55543
02/08/2002 1:05 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,070 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,070 Likes: 2 |
...derived from Al-Gibar... the Moor who invaded the Iberian peninsula...
..I thought he was the guy for whom they named "X = ?" and all that subsequent math...
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#55544
02/08/2002 5:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 8 |
It could, in theory, be Gothic, but Gothic was pretty much a dead language in Spain by about 550CE at the latest, so I can't see it being used for a toponym; in fact, I don't think that there are any Gothic toponyms in Spain.
Who would "Jabbar" be? That's certainly neither Latin nor Germanic.
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#55545
02/08/2002 10:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Who would "Jabbar" be?According to the site I got the Jabbar-altar WAG from it means "mighty". I guess it would be a sobriquet. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aframjews/message/363
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#55546
02/08/2002 7:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Gawd almighty, you lot of high'n mighty wordaphiles! Doncha know that it refers to Jabbar the Hutt? It appears that George Lucas named Britain's last (and failing) colonial outpost! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#55547
02/08/2002 8:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
yer just plain wrong, CK -- it was named for that Muslim mountain of a man Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
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