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#55505 02/06/02 08:29 AM
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#55506 02/06/02 10:10 AM
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No expert I, Max, but it certainly sounds extremely unlikely. I believe that wood and horn were the common materials amongst the ancient civilisations of the Mediterranean, perhaps decorated with precious metals in ornate cases.

The epithet ~~~~~ no doubt referred to the outer decoration of the bow, as silver could not enter into the active part of its structure. That the Greek bow was commonly a composite, or at any rate a horn one, is evident from the epithet ~~~~~ , which is constantly applied to it by Homer. This word signifies the recurving peculiar to the horn bow when un strung, which is due to the horns regaining their natural shape, and it is best translated by the word reflex, which is the tech nical term describing a bow which, when unstrung, bends from the centre in the opposite direction to that in which it is drawn.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcelo/archery/library/books/badminton/docs/chapter04/chapter4_2.html



#55507 02/06/02 12:27 PM
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Looking at the title, I thought you were posting about sagging armco barriers ...

I dunno about the Medeans' bows, but in some wealthy bronze/iron age civilisations people showed off their wealth by sheathing their bows in beaten sheets of bronze or copper and/or gold with lots of intricate metalwork designs. These were usually either for ceremonial purposes or for the hunt. But the basic construction remained, I believe, wood or horn (for smaller bows). I could be more specific if I could be bothered sorting through 15 boxes of books in the garage. But I can't!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#55508 02/06/02 03:24 PM
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Dear Max: I don't think the Medes had technology to make spring steel, which I think was first made rather late in European history. Medieval crossbows were make of spring steel. Here's a revolting tale of the death of kings:

two english kings Rufus and Richard killed by bolts Edmund II (ironside) killed by springbow in privy - "entered
his fundament and pierced his lung"


#55509 02/06/02 06:03 PM
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"Median metal bows?" ... I dunno about the Medeans' bows

I thought so too, Kiwi, and not seeing your post I was about to make your same point. But upon LIU I found to my surprise that Max is correct (I should have known!). The ancient county in question was Media, for which the adjectival form is Median; the later (as well as the more familiar Mede) also being a noun form.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/M0188400.html


#55510 02/06/02 06:16 PM
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I have read that the ancient crossbows were very effective, but quite slow to draw. I can imagine that on horseback the Parthians could have used them where a longbox would be almost impossible. "The Parthian shot." The medieval bows made like automobile leaf springs could go through any armor, but took so long to wind up, that the English longbow man who allegedly could shoot twelve arrows a minute (hard to believe) was more effective.


#55511 02/06/02 06:22 PM
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I believe the longbow had a much greater range, as well.
Battle of Agincourt, I think? Our Welsh scholar may be much better positioned to speak than I.

http://www.archers.org/longbow.htm focuses on the longbow as a major breakthough [pun unavoidable] in military science.

Its social effects were, however, even more far-reaching [pun unavoidable]. The immense power of the longbow made it very difficult to use, and required "training at a very early age, traditionally at the age of seven." Thus the bowman -- now just his bow -- was a valuable military asset, to be protected and rewarded. For the first time, commoners had value as individuals.

---------
Another site indicates that the longbow is the source of our V-for-Victory gesture and for "crossed fingers":

The longbows were drawn using the first and second fingers of the right hand. And so feared were the English Longbowmen that, when captured, the French would cut those two fingers off to render the bowman useless should he escape.

When the English archers held up those fingers upright and apart to taunt the French before a battle they were actually saying "See! I still have them!" and the "V" sign rapidly became a very insulting gesture..

On the other hand, the "crossed fingers" was a sign of hope and good luck exchanged between Englishmen before a battle, meaning that these fingers and, therefore, they themselves would survive.

#55512 02/06/02 06:52 PM
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The constant practice and strength required to draw longbow cause bones of left forearms of the archers to become thickened, so that skeletons of archers on ancient battlefields can be readily recognized.

As far back as the Assyrians, longbow archers wore a covering over left wrist, because the least carelessness could result in bowstring causing grievous damage to volar (inner) surface. Allegedly the Amazons were so named because they amputated right breasts to avoid injury from bowstrings. End of trivia.


#55513 02/07/02 03:39 AM
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I would think this highly unlikely, Max. The use of metal would add nothing to the effectiveness of the bow. The English archers used longbows made of yew wood and they were powerful enough to penetrate the finest plate armor, as the French learned to their cost at the battles of Crecy and Agincourt.


#55514 02/07/02 03:51 AM
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On the other hand, the "crossed fingers" was a sign of hope and good luck exchanged between
Englishmen before a battle, meaning that these fingers and, therefore, they themselves would
survive.


So we uncovered the historical origin of "crossed fingers" in this little excursion...intriguing! Thanks, Keiva.
And also revalidated the two-fingered version of flipping-the-bird, which you once asked about.


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