Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#5554 08/23/01 04:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
I found a collective noun for butterflies, but I think it stinks: a rabble of butterflies. A flutterby of butterflies would be a bit more descriptive.


#5555 08/23/01 05:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
wow (and bill (and all you rabble)),

many of these collective nouns are not just fanciful, but rather have some etymological basis. to wit, the first sense of rabble:

†1. A pack, string, swarm (of animals). Obs.
13+ Gaw. & Gr. Knt. 1703 [The dogs] runnen forth in a rabel. Ibid. 1899 Renaud com+& alle þe rabel+ryŠt at his helez. 1513 Douglas Æneis xi. ix. 29 The rawk vocit swannis in a rabyll. a1529 Skelton P. Sparowe 1313 He brought out a rable Of coursers and rounses. 1591 Sylvester Du Bartas i. v. 909 Flies, Butterflies, Gnats, Bees, and all the rabbles Of other Insects.

-joe (i am a member of the rabble in good standing) friday

2. a. A tumultuous crowd or array of people, a disorderly assemblage, a mob.

...and an array of butterflies is certainly a disorderly assemblage.

#5556 08/23/01 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Your explication of "rabble" is as usual entirely sound. However, "rabble" just does not to me in any way suggest the beauty or behaviour of butterflies.


#5557 08/23/01 07:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
K
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
K
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
If this is a question of first impression, I'd vote for "flutter".
However, it must be admitted that a poster framed on my wall, collecting such terms, says "a rabble of butterflies". (Googling this term produced many lists that include it, but I've found none that cites a primary authority.)

note to paulb: I too checked Lipton's book, without success. However, Lipton cites The Book of St. Albans, 1486, as the seminal authority. Any idea how to find that, or any reprint, to check for butterflies? My weak googling skills aren't up to the task.


#5558 08/24/01 11:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
Hi Keiva:

re Book of St Albans: We may have to ask one of our English colleagues to check out the original edition which should be in either the British Library or the Bodleian Library. Any takers?



#5559 08/24/01 02:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Since they are apparently not Congregational, perhaps you would call them a catholic (small c) of butterflies.



TEd
#5560 08/24/01 03:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Welcome to the board, Tim! A timely query. Here in Cape May, New Jersey, we are descended upon every Fall by swarms of migrating monarch butterflies (we always called them swarms), they love the nectar of a certain kind of goldenrod that flourishes on the dunes and sandy soil here (along with milkweed), and it's always an inspiring sight to see the beauty of thousands of orange monarchs draped over the yellow blossoms along the beach! We always said "swarms" here...but I like "flutter" the best of all the suggestions posted here! Migration clusters...hmmm, "cluster"...we use that sometimes, too...can number up to the millions, I think, on their way to the mountains of Mexico and a certain new wintering spot in Florida (though not large enough to sustain the monarchs if they continue to lose their Mexican habitat). I have the figures somewhere...I'll post them when I can be more exact. I attended a Monarch seminar last year at The Wetlands Institute here given by a scientist who is the foremost expert/researcher on Monarch butterflies, so I'm sure the proper term is somewhere in the literature I filed from it. I'll look and get back if I find it.


#5561 08/24/01 04:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
K
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
K
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
a response to the first, last and only post of Tim_Morton.

Tim was just a flutterby, never a part of our rabble.


#5562 08/24/01 04:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>A timely query

yes; well it was, after all, an anniversary thing.


#5563 08/24/01 04:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
K
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
K
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Hi Paulb:
re Book of St. Albans: We may have to ask one of our English colleagues to check out the original edition
An original may not help; I gather it's in a very ornate, hard-to-read print. More art than writing. A transcription though? (Beineke Rare Book Library at Yale may have one, but I can't seem to get it loaded up.)

Apparently the Book of St. Albans was quite significant: my info is that it's repeatedly discussed in histories of printing, and that OED cites it over 800 times. So something should be available.


Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,413
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (wofahulicodoc), 998 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
wofahulicodoc 10,584
tsuwm 10,542
LukeJavan8 9,922
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5