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#53685 01/25/02 10:46 PM
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#53686 01/25/02 11:11 PM
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Dear MaxQ: Do tell us what Ben Franklin would say about a voluntary ID card. Maybe he would say that it was dangerous for all the signers of the Declaration of Independence to have done so. He might tell me that it is dangerous for me to use my initials on the board, and in my bio have my full name, and have my e-mail address wwhunt@pacbell.net. If anybody is interested, my address is 15743 Covello St. Van Nuys, CA 91406
To recapitulate, I see no danger in a VOLUNTARY ID card. And nobody yet has given any sensible reason why I should fear to have one. If this be treason, make the most of it.


#53687 01/25/02 11:21 PM
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Dear MaxQ: If this is the Franklin quote you were referring to, you should read it again, carefully.
I believe you have completely misunderstood it. He was not advocating caution, quite the opposite.

They that can give up essential
liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.


#53688 01/25/02 11:21 PM
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I must draw a distinction between a national ID card and a frequent flyer card.

The national one is only useful to tyranny - democratic/republic governments do not need it. A national ID is a prelude to authoritarianism, the same way personal weapon prohibition is.

A frequent flyer card is *much* more easily faked, since law enforcement would not administer them. Seriously, the IL commercial driver's license scandal should be a clue that we don't want protection from terrorism to ride on such a silly thing as an ID even administered by the state (or the State). Forget one administered by airlines or some such foolishness.

It may not seem like I've come up with "a sensible reason" but I think I have. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I suppose my tolerance for inconvenience is a bit higher, too.

Cheers,
Bryan

You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.


Cheers,
Bryan

You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.
#53689 01/26/02 01:10 AM
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I'm a little confused about this hubbub. I don't see what is particularly nefarious about having a picture I.D. Our driver’s licenses have our pictures on them. If you want to cash a cheque, a picture I.D. is a good indication to the merchant that you are indeed the owner of those cheques.

You are already registered with a social security number, are you not? How does adding a picture make it bad all of a sudden?

More importantly, don’t you believe that the intentions of your government are good? I believe my government has the best of intentions for us. Sometimes I don’t always agree with what they do but I do believe they have the people’s best interest at heart.

If you believe your government has some machiavellian intentions then you have more important things to worry about…like ousting that government pronto.

I don’t mind being identified as exactly who I am.



#53690 01/26/02 03:58 AM
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bel, though we live in different countries, I agree entirely with you. I can't believe that anyone in the government is there purely for personal gain. Though national politicians seem to put a lot of spin on what they say, they all see public office as an opportunity to change some aspect of society for the better, whatever their intended method for doing that is. Plus, needing a majority vote to be elected, there are much easier ways to achieve personal gain.

And about national ID cards, I've often thought that some type of general, customizable card that could function as drivers license, SS card, debit card, library card or whatever would be very convenient. Surely it could be made so that certain companies' computers could only access specific info on the card, thus allowing for multiple functions. And maybe you could put some optional info on it if you think it would be convenient. Obviously, there could be problems with this, but I don't see it as altogether evil, and I'm certainly not an authoritarian.


#53691 01/26/02 09:53 AM
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#53692 01/26/02 04:55 PM
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For all who have participated here I suggest a good book : "Six Days" by Brendan DuBois available in US and UK publisher Little Brown. In hard cover - ISBN 0-316-85481-6 or in C format ISBN0-316-85477-8
Also a cautionary tale about homeland security!!!
I register as opposed to a national ID card.
Fer heaven's sake there are books out in general circulation about how to establish a different identity, fake IDs and even passports ... just for starters.
Even a voluntary card could be easily faked ... there's always someone who can find a way around any law or regulation if they're up to no good!




#53693 01/26/02 05:15 PM
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I have always felt that it is my duty to be stingy with my freedom. A little trimmed off here, some bartered over there, and the next thing you know, you have next to no freedom and very little liberty to pursue personal happiness. I don't know what will deter bad guys, they are so very determined to be bad. This does not give the government or anyone else the right to restrict my freedom.


#53694 01/26/02 07:29 PM
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I can't believe that anyone in the government is there purely for personal gain.

I'm-m-m... also try-y-ying... r-r-resisting...tempt-t-t-ation...


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