What's the consensus on the pronunciation of the word often? Is the letter T silent? Do you make an assumption about the speaker if you hear the T? Trying to sound upper class, or being too correct? Is the T more often audible in certain dialects or geographic areas? Any relation the the slightly poetic and maybe older form, oft?
When I say often my T is soft, which rhymes with oft, where my T is hard again, but then I soften it for soften, an oft repeated contradiction, but there you are...I think.
I recall a previous thread on this at this site???
Anyway, I think "off-en" is the dominant form in Australia. I believe many here would regard "off-ten" as old fashioned - and don't believe that there are any "class" connotations with either pronunciation. (After all, one's social standing is pretty irrelevant in this country - any divisions seem moreso related to one's job). I am also unaware whether the pronunciation is "regionalised" here.
I seem to remember reading somewhere (Fowler?) that the traditional pronunication was in fact offen, but it was spelt with a t to show the link with oft. Then in the 19th century some people started thinking that if there's a written t there should be a spoken one as well, but this writing pronunciation was never completely accepted.
I agree that /oftn/ is probably a spelling pronunciation, i.e. a revival, not a survival of the original. The loss of T between other consonants is normal, e.g. soften, castle, whistle; probably also 'postman' for most of us; though without access to the OED I have no idea what century the T was lost in.
I say /ofn/, and always regarded /oftn/ as substandard (until I become a proper linguist who doesn't make such pernicious judgements hem-hem). Middle class perhaps. On the increase, possibly. I couldn't say which is more commonly used.
As did I. I wonder if it's common to all Liz's lands, or just our two?
In Canada, it's mailman (although technically it's probably letter carrier). However, we usually pronounce t's in words where they are ignored by others (internet, international, interesting, interact - all these still have that first "t" pronounced in Canada, and the innernet, innernational, inneresting, inneract pronunciations are viewed as US'n). So I would pronounce the '"t" if I had to say the word postman.
You'll hear 'em all used within one half-hour show.
If we know what we're supposed to be hearing and we're familiar with the accent being spoken we'll fill in a lot of blanks. Listen carefully. I have frequently heard infastru[c]ture from national level newscasters.
restrain with a posey vest when in bed with 2 side rails up and a posey belt when in the wheelchair. The use of the posey vest restraint has been in effect ... http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/projects/nursing_homes/pdf/hydepark_3.21.
You'll hear 'em all used within one half-hour show.
If we know what we're supposed to be hearing and we're familiar with the accent being spoken we'll fill in a lot of blanks. Listen carefully. I have frequently heard infastru[c]ture from national level newscasters.
Oh yes-- i am quite sure that i say during as juring -- but i did an infromal survey, and everyone "heard" me say During-- i think i say internet, and i never hear any one say innernet-- but i will start listening.. faldage is right-- i might just be adding the t
I say /ofn/, and always regarded /oftn/ as substandard (until I become a proper linguist who doesn't make such pernicious judgements hem-hem).
this intrigued me, b/c i would've thought the opposite; i always pronounce the T and i'm not sure i've heard it the other way except perhaps from a child.
what about "February"? i pronounce the "r" that immediately follows the b, although it's so quick that you might miss it. definitely there, though. is the silent "r" considered a 'linguistically correct' alternative?
also, how about "wednesday"? i say 'win-s[t]ay', but it's always bothered me b/c it seems it should be pronounced something more like weddin'-s[t]ay. any thoughts?
also, how about "wednesday"? i say 'winds-day', but it's always bothered me b/c it seems it should be pronounced something more like weddin'-s[t]ay. any thoughts?
Oh yes, its Wends day, (just as a brook might wend its way through a glenn) --until i go to write it-- then its Wed nes day...it this (ok, i have been told twice, but i still don't remember the term--) like brid --> Bird and pretty-->purty, and ask --> ax? Wednes became Wends?
and can you say it quickly--- before you think! Saturday
is it Sat'r day? Or Satur day? or Sat-her day? with no space in the Sat-her but a definate t at the end of Sat and an H before the (schwa)R? i think i say the last one..
it drives me crazy-- once we start talking about how we say things... because i tend to slip into a hyper correction... Often is a hyper correction..(i think!) it should be offen.
Oh, I think we all mangle some aspects of the language in normal speech. Faldage is certainly correct (I didn't say that, I didn't say that, I didn't say that ... ad nauseam) when he says that we tend to mentally interpolate missing letters or "correct" total mispronounciation of words. Yet another reason why furriners have trouble with the lingo, I suppose.
If you want painfully correct diction MOST of the time, I suggest you listen to the Beeb.
Returning to the original question - can't call it an old British usage to say off-ten. I offer W. S. Gilbert's
MAJOR-GENERAL: ...I see where we are getting confused. When you said "orphan", did you mean "orphan", a person who has lost his parents, or "often", frequently?
_Pirates_ opened in London New Year's Eve, 1879, with nary a thought that often could be pronounced with a t; if so, no ambiguity whatsoever, and hence no humor.
Not to say that some people don't pronounce it the other way; just that a British accent isn't the source.
(Or maybe...it was Shakespeare who made us pronounce the T! In Julius Caesar ! "The evil that men do lives after them/The good is often tarred with their bones"?)
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