|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605 |
My daughter asks if this board can pinpoint for her the origin of the phrase, "You can take the boy out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the boy," or the like.
Can you please help her out, ladies and gentleman? Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Great question!  I can think of a lot of examples, but know not the origin.... [whiteness]The converse being: "How do you keep 'em down on the farm, now that they've seen gay Paree?" Origin: A WW1 song, probably misquoted.[unwhiteness]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
Unbelieveably, I searched this on The Phrase Finder, and the only near-hit I got was this: The Phrase Finder is based in Sheffield, England so we have a special interest in
this phrase since that's where the eponymous 1990s film is set. No definitive
explanation of where the phrase originates has emerged though. The most often
repeated is the notion that it derives from the suit hire business of Sir Montague
Burton. A complete dress suit, for a wedding etc, would be the Full Monty.
Another explanation derives from a Spanish card game where the pile of cards
on the table is called a 'monte'. Yet another comes from Field Marshall
Montgomery's alleged habit of wearing his full set of medals, or even his alleged
insistence on a full English breakfast every day. Although the phrase has been in
circulation prior to the film there don't appear to be any instances of it
appearing in print before 1986. Does this now qualify as a haunting? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I remember the phrase from WWII days, when it meant that US servicemen did not change much from going overseas. No clue has to origin.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
A complete dress suit, for a wedding etc, would be the Full Monty.
And another sort of full Monty for after the wedding in the nuptial chambers.
What has haunted you, WON, by the way? And did you misread the question as "You can take the boy out of the monty, but can't take the monty out of the boy?"
Dub
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
What has haunted you, WON, by the way?Full Monty is haunting AWAD...evidently! and not even Uncle Tsuwm could ever confirm the etymology, there once were 3 Monty threads going at once...er, thrice!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
By the way, I'm not trying to steer away from Keiva's very intriguing inquiry...in fact it has me on a quest. A real toughie. The key would be the original analogy (boy/country). Without that, a search seems to be fruitless. It could be very ancient, go back to the Romans or classical Greeks. But something keeps hearkening me to a Biblical connotation...perhaps something like "you can take the sinner out of the sin, but you can't take the sin out of the sinner...you can only forgive." It could also relate to the concept of "original" sin. Anyone here enough of a Biblical scholar to perhaps zero in on this 'shot in the dark'?
I've used this saying regularly, in scores of subject combinations and usually in jest, over the years. I'm really curious. On the other hand, it could be modern...20th century Madison Avenue, an ad slogan we've forgotten. Who knows? Help!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 688 |
On the other hand, it could be modern...20th century Madison Avenue, an ad slogan we've forgotten. Who knows? Help!
Sorry, since this was posted I have had this dumb jingle going through my mind, over and over and over again! It is screaming to come out and if I don't release it it may haunt me forever!You can take Salem out of the country, but, you can't take the country out of Salem.There.....NOW LEAVE ME ALONE ALREADY! PHEW!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
This is the only clue I could turn up after exhaustive searching, Keiva. From a site called "Sayings and Everyday Expressions" (but nothing more there, what you see here is what you get).
BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE THE COUNTRY OUT OF THE BOY---Changing the place a person lives
does not change one's character or personality.---B. Baer (1938.) Hollywood. ...
I searched extensively on the B. Baer lead, but found zilch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Sounds like Buddy Baer (q.v. http://us.imdb.com/Name?Baer,+Buddy) You could dig through his movies and look for quotes there.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,621
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
198
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
